On the EAA MP221, I received an email from them, stating that the rifles should be in consumers hands mid july to august!!

I will be calling my dealer and make sure my order is still "in" for a 45/70


<happy dance>
This summer, I'll have my 500 jeffe (back), my 550 Express, and 45/70 double rifle!!!

Guess I'll be needing to hunt a bunch to use them all.

jeffe

Thanks for the update, Jeffe! Hope they work as advertised.

Jeffe:

I've looked around and can't find any pricing information on the EAA double rifle.

I gather you have one on order... can you tell us what you paid for it?

Brian

Brian,
the list is 629.. i am expecting 550...

http://www.eaacorp.com/firearms/rifles/sidebyside/izhmp221t.shtml

Looks like these are FINALLY coming in...

dang, i hope so
jeffe

Jeffe,I think I'll buy one of these "cheap double rifles" Either the 30-06 or 45/70.Probably the 45/70.Hopefully it will shoot straight.If so,I'll take it on my Black Bear hunt in Sept.

I'll believe it when I see it.

In the mean time I've got a 20" 12 gauge from them with 45-70 barrel tubes.

Haven't shot it yet though

Jeffe, are you still going to rechamber it? I'll try to call your cell over the weekend to talk about the 300 Sherwood loading.

Jeff,
YEPPERS... i am going to shoot it as a 45/70, then go up from them.. 120 or 450ne.. depending

call the cell, if I'm home, it's forwarded there!!

jeffe

I just emailed EAA and asked if they will be exporting them to Australia. I would like a cheap double to play with until I get a Heym or Merkel double in a year or two.
As Jeffeosso said ,I wonder if it will be practicle to turn one into a 450NE or 450 No2. Would be good for a fun gun.

Same cr 500 I want one as well, I may drill it out to 45/120 with starline brass you would have quite a powerful cracker there I would think.

Jeffeoso, there's an article you might enjoy reading on this link: Rimmed Hi-Power Cartridges For Doubles, Lever Actions, etc.



Lotsa' KEWEL 45cal Rimmed alternatives out there!



GOOD LUCK!

Gowge,
thanks.. other than the 45/90 and 457, I have played around with these monsters... at least in a lever gun they are monsters...

I'd love to find someone's battered browning 86....

jeffe

"I'd love to find someone's battered browning 86...."

Sigh. Yeah, me too. I'm liking this cheap double idea tho'. Jeffe, did you ever come up with more info on cnverting Browning BSS shotguns into doubles? I've still got a dusty one in the cupboard. - Dan

Dan,
you know, i was just thinking about your shotgun...
I think, if you don't mind, I'll finish a couple projects in the works, and buy that from you.

I think I have a clue/idea/data, and I am willing to put my hard earned money on that, on making that work...

I do want a 470 NE, and I doubt i'll be willing to part with 10k or more anytime soon.

too bad i don't ever hear about the "broken stock browning m71" or the "beat barrel new m 86"...

jeffe

I'm not trying to stir, but why a 120? From what I have read, a 70 will do anything the 120 will with modern powders.

On the up side, a 120 does look very cool, but then a cheap Russian double is not so cool.

Robin

Robin,
Welcome to the forums. and I have a teeshirt with the 10 joke on it.

You are kinda correct... the 45/70 can be loaded, hot, to match anything the 120 can do at lower pressure. All things being equal, i'ld be happy with 400s at 2000 fps, which might be too hot a load for the russian double... but at a 45/120, the case is larger, and can have an equal velocity with lower pressure.. and the same thrust..

just my thoughts on it...

as for the cheap russian.. yep, that it will be, and i've seen this rifle's "parent" shotgun, which i found to be marginally acceptable in metal work, and i've seen more grain in a matchstick. Since I'll probably be looking at restocking anyway, that's not really an issue for me.

on the otherhand, have you ever seen a russian milled sks? while not even comparable to a pre WWI mauser, they are fairly nice to look at

jeffe

Hey, thank you, Jeff. I'm still waiting for one, as is my buddy. I figured on putting my order in with Jerry's, unless you can suggest another distributor. Just renewed my FFL (went pretty fast this time), so I'm in "mailing mode" anyway. I sure want to get my hands on one soon.

Thanks again for the update, Jeff.

Take care.

Russ

I think we covered this awhile back, but the same gun is chambered in 270win which has a max saami pressure of 62k. so if we look at the ratio of case bodies then the 45-70 or 120 could be loaded to 54k and keep the same bolt thrust.

A quick run through quickload with the 45-120 shows
400gn at 2150fps and 37ksi
400gn at 2310fps and 45ksi
500gn at 1950fps and 37ksi
500gn at 2050fps and 45ksi
FWIW

Lar,
500 gr at 2050?

oh wow

jeffe

Howdy. What's your thoughts on the Pedersoli Kodiak double rifle? Quality vs cost, etc. compared to this model being discussed. Also, on the Pedersoli, your thoughts on converting the 45/70 to, say, 450 NE No. 2?

What I'm pondering is the long term consideration of "quality versus cost" (something you'd want to keep, shoot regularly and pass on to Grandsons) with all of us realizing neither of the 2 guns is close to the European stalwarts or those that Butch Searcy offers.

Maybe Mickey can shed some light along with others. I do have an interest in a 'poor man's double'.

Thanks, Jeffe.

Dungbeetle

Howdy DB,
not having handled the mp221, i can only project from the izh43... the perdersoli is the RIGHT weight, has great finish, and can be regulated .... in fact, the frontstuffers can be regulated too.. i had one done

the pedersoli costs 2000-2800 in 45/70.. the mp221 should go from 550-600,,,, for that price, i don't expect much...

then again, for 600, i would expect a bolt gun to be fairly decent.

the kodiak weighs 3# more, and some people have converted them... as i understand it, all successfuly

jeffe

Thanks, Jeffe. More than a few of us will want to see how yours performs and what changes you might make to tweak, if necessary.

On the Pedersoli Kodiak, would you (anyone) know of any smiths who do (have done) the 45/70 to 450 NE#2 conversions and would you hazard a guess as to what that conversion might cost?

Thanks, again.

Dungbeetle

There's a fella here that did this conversion... i think it was 800-900 and "only" required a new front sight...


the 450 ne #2 is an excellent round...

jeffe

Jeffe,
What type of performance (vel/bullet wgt) do you hope to get out of the .45-120?
Max

What I've read on the Pedersoli 450 #2 conversion is that the barrels didn't have to be touched for regulation.

Jeffo,

just buy a repro 1886 made by Mirouko, I have recently done that. Just waiting for the paper work to go through...they have a tang safety but hey they made well and use modern metals.

Prof,

(until product in hand, I am assuming US hunting only)

I'll bevery pleased with 400 gr at 2000... now that 400 will be a barnes solid with a long throat, but very pleased.. If i can also run rem 405 at 2000, i would be pleased



Both of the above loads CAN be had in high pressure 45/70..



now, if the gun would get anywhere close to 2050 with a 500 gr bullet... why, fellas, that's faster than most 458 winmag ammo... that might require going right to 458 rcb (2.8" case) or 458 "jeffe"... 3" case.....



i am torn between 450 alaskan or 450 ne#2.... why is a good question.. i can get brass, dies, and shoot alot more than I think I can for the NE.. 348 brass is fairly cheap.



PC,

send me a link, please, on that repro 86



jeffe

Jeefe, I think that Miroku 86 is the high wall Winchester is selling. - Dan

Dan,
that makes better sense....

dude, the prices are all over the place.. from 650 to 2500...

jeffe

If you are considering the 450 Alaskan, why not go with the 450/110. I have one built on a new production 86 Winchester Extra Lite. It shoots a 420 grain cast bullet 2400 fps with a max load of 83 grains of RL15.

Cartridge is base on 50/110 case necked down to .458. Quality brass is available from Starline for 75 cents a case. I bought 500 cases for $350. One pass through the sizing die and you are in business.

That cartridge would do well in a double because you are not limited to 2.88 inches oal on a 2.4 inch case as you are in the lever gun. Could easily be loaded to 3.2 inches with a longer throat in a double rifle.

The conversion is done by Dave Clay in Fort Worth, Texas.

Just a thought.

Even if these things look like they were gnawed into shape by intoxicated one-eyed beavers, $550 for a double rifle is an attractive deal!

Bet one of these in 7.62x39'd be a real collector's item one day.

JNC,
there's yet another idea...


oh yeah, the 7.63x39, while not a dgr, would be a hell of a rook rifle.. loaded with cast bullets, heavy and slow?, or, if it swings worth a crap, a great kicking around rifle.. and 10cents a round


jeffe

Or, as long as we are talking traditional conversions, how about a 303 Brit? How close are the twist rates?

303 would be COOL... however, they dont' state twist or bore... i'ld nearly bet it a .308 barrel, since the other 2 30's are 308 and 30/06.... so, if it's a .308, then it's a natural thuddie thuddie....

I can see having one in 223, 308, and 45/70... who KNOWS.. i just hope it's worth a tinkers damn or better... the 45/70 for a start


jeffe

Or 30-40 Krag. It's kind of pointless if you can get a 308 or a 30-06 but then again; by that standard 3/4 of my safe contents are pointless. Huzzah!

I e-mailed EAA a couple days ago about their double and haven't recieved a reply.I also e-mailed Buffalo Bore about using their magnum 45-70 loads in this new double and they said since their ammo is used in the Handi-Rifle and the Pedersoli they could see no reason why it couldn't be used in this new rifle.Any comments on safety?

My POV is that this same action is offered in 30-06/308 AND that as a shotgun, it will handle the winchester sxt? load... 385gr at 1900
http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/shotdetail.aspx?symbol=SSP12&gauge=12

i really dont "feel" there will be an issue with that load...BUT I will be working up to that, not starting there

jeffe