The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores My first post, and my first "big bore" . . .Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Greetings, gentlemen (and ladies???). I have been happily lurking on this forum for well over a year, sucking up all the knowledge that I can about rifles and hunting. I have wanted an "elephant rifle" (if you will pardon the expression) for as long as I can remember. In other words, a big gun chambered for a powerful, effective, *British* cartridge. I debated the merits of various CRF bolt-actions endlessly, and thought seriously about buying a .375 H&H. Unfortunately, I am still a graduate student, and don't pull in a lot of money. So a high-class, beautiful repeater was out of the question (for now!). I searched the local gunshops endlessly for a nice used .375. I finally found a Ruger No.1, lightly used, yesterday, for $579. I passed on it, though, for some reason. I just didn't feel quite right, and I thought the price was a little high for it's "good" condition. I drove up the road a bit, to my favorite firearms emporium. Lo and behold, they had two big bores in stock, a M77 Magnum in .416 Rigby and a No. 1 chambered for the same cartridge. Both had languished on the shelf for over six months, probably because most shooters in my area don't seem to need or want a rifle of that power level. Whitetails around here rarely go over 150 lbs. :-) I looked the No. 1 over very carefully, for the umpteenth time, and pondered the box of goodies that came with this used rifle. Included in the purchase price were a full box of Federal 410-grain softpoints, 20 unprimed (new) norma cases, a set of RCBS reloading dies with shellholder, and an RCBS 350-grain bullet mould. The rifle was in almost mint condition, barring a couple of very minor dings on the fore-end. I passed it up yesterday evening, thinking "It's too much gun. I really should get a .375 as my first 'real' big-bore. My friend, who is much more interested in handguns and carbines than in big-bores, told me that he would buy a new Thompson .45 auto carbine, if I would satisfy my passionate drive to have and shoot an "elephant gun." I htought about the rifle all night, last night, and pored over all the posts I could find on this board, that concerned the mighty .416. Today, we went back to the gunstore, and the rifle came home with me. It cost me $650 plus tax, including all the extras described above. So, did I get a reasonable deal? At the moment, I certainly think so. The weapon is gorgeous and balances very well for me. I do not plan to add a scope, but will be adding better fixed sights and a NECG peep to the rifle. Is it the rifle for me? I won't know until I get to shoot it! :-) I plan on having my first range session with it tomorrow, accompanied by a PAST super-magnum pad. I will definitely have to reload in order to shoot it very much, which will allow me much more practice at reduced cost, along with increasing my skill and knowledge of reloading practices (very basic, at this point). Anyway, to everyone on this board, I say "Thank you". I have greatly enjoyed reading the discussions here, and your knowledge and thoughts contributed greatly to my decision to purchase this beautiful rifle. | ||
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Congratulations on your new rifle. Let us know how the range session goes. | |||
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Khorazanian Good for you enjoy you new rifle. That sort of first time enthusiam is something you will not enjoy at the same level again. Cherish it. | |||
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Thanks, guys. I plan to enjoy the heck out of my rifle, and the new experience of feeding and shooting a real big bore. .44 magnum carbines don't count, do they? :-) Do you all have any good advice on handling/shooting the .416? Is there anything that I should know about stance or "hold", to help me control and absorb the recoil energy of this weapon? I will definitely be adding a pachmayr decelerator pad in the near future, and will use the PAST "sissy pad" at least until I get the atrocious ruger buttpad replaced. On a side note, the emporium where I purchased said rifle forbade me from testing it in their shiny new indoor range, despite the counter girl's desire to see me knocked on my butt by the recoil. She's a school chum of mine, and a real gun nut, and I am going to make her shoot the rifle if it hurts me. :-) Luckily, I have 40 acres of steep hillside on which to shoot, so tomorrow I will have a go with the .416, and post my results here for all to see. I won't be trying to sight in yet, but I will try to get the feel of the weapon, and some understanding of what it will take to use it effectively on game. This will hopefully be a fun gun, meant as a learning tool, and as a "visual aid" for long, involved fantasies about hunting in Africa. Like a fool, I have already passed up three opportunities to get on the African continent, although all would have been non-hunting trips. Maybe when I graduate with the coveted doctorate, I will be able to afford that . . . . . | |||
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Khorazanian Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your Elephant rifle. I like the Ruger No1's with the iron sights and Alex Henry forearms real well. I still have a 45/70 that shoots like a varmint rifle. I think you will like it a lot. Hunting with a single shot is a lot of fun. ![[Cool]](images/icons/cool.gif){kind=icon} I use my Elephant rifles for deer and wild pigs all the time, bear and caribou too. If you find that the over the counter bullets shoot right through your deer, just get some bullets from www.hawkbullets.com I have used the .025jkt and the .035jkt thickness bullets on deer and pigs with excellent results. I learned this "trick" shooting my No1's and use it on my double rifles as well. Put one of those ammo carriers on the buttstock of your No1. After you fire a shot, keeping the rifle in your shoulder, lower the rifle slightly so you can see the object you are shooting at as you lower the lever. The empty will eject, "pluck" a live round from your buttstock carrier, and place in in the chamber. Then raise the rifle as you close the lever, re-acquire the sights and the target, and if necessary shoot again. Repeat as necessary. ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} With practice you can give a bolt rifle shooter a run for his money.... until his magazine runs dry, and while he is fishing for more ammo and reloading his magazine you will still be shooting. I have found that the all elastic butstock shell carriers will abrade your face on heavy recoil rifles, especially if you shoot a lot. The best butstock carrier I have found is from www.murrayleather.com The leather is smooth to your face and the elastic shell holders is the best quality elastic I have ever seen. All his products are first rate. Keep us posted on how she shoots. | |||
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N E 450 No2, Thanks for the tips! I was very much planning on adding a buttstock cartridge carrier for just that sort of reloading technique (read about it in an old Ross Seyfried article). I had no idea where to acquire the right sort of leather carrier, though. The Murray buttstock shell holder looks like just the ticket. I imagine that it will take lots of practice for me to get very fast and accurate with the technique you describe, but I do intend to try. :-) I will also definitely be looking for relatively inexpensive bullets for practice loads, and I will probably try a reload out on whitetails come autumn. If I get really adventurous, I may even try casting some hard lead bullets. Are light loads feasible for this gun and cartridge? How about blackpowder/pyrodex (heresy, I know, in a cartridge designed for nitro-based powders)??? | |||
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Khorazanian I have never loaded for the 416 Rigby, but have loaded for the 416 Rem Mag and 416 WBY Mag. You do not want to try and load light with slow burning powders. If I was going to try and load the 416 Rigby light with cast or jacketed bullets I would get a copy of SHOOTING THE BRITISH DOUBLE RIFLE Second Edition, by Graeme Wright. I would use his and Ross Seyfrieds formula for Nitro For Black loads in double rifles. WARNING; THE FOLLOWING IS A THEORY ONLY. With a 400gr bullet. cast or jacketed I would start with 50grains of IMR 4198, with enough dacron [polyester pillow stuffing] to compress the powder as the bullet is seated. You MUST use the filler and it MUST be compressed. The above load is safe in my 450 No2 double rifle with 400gr cast or jacketed bullets. Velocity is a little above 1800fps. I have worked up loads as high as 60 grains of IMR 4198 with no pressure problems. I use 15 grains [weighed] of dacron. The 450 No2 case is bigger than the 416 Rigby, but the No1 is twice as strong as my double so I do not "Think" you would have any problems. Your velocity would probably be a little higher, maybe a hundred feet per second or so. I am sure some of the other posters here will have some good loads for you, but I do not know if any body has tried the Nitro for Black technique with the Rigby. | |||
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quote:Thanks much. I'll definitely acquire and read the book before trying that technique, and try to get some expert advice from other reloaders. I do *not* want to blow myself or the gun up, and this will very much be a learning process for me. | |||
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I recently traded for my first 416 Rigby, a CZ550, and did some searching for the least expensive bullets for practice. The 350 grain Speer Mag Tips are available for around $20/box of 50, they are the least expensive jacketed bullet I have found......with the exception that Barnes has some 416 bullets on close out......416 X bullets at $18/50! For "lighter" loads, check out Accurate XMP5744 powder and cast bullets. [ 07-16-2003, 16:09: Message edited by: GonHuntin ] | |||
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Khorazanian, Here's a nice article on the .416 Rigby by Joe Coogan that you may enjoy reading: http://www.nrahq.org/publications/tar/rifle.asp .375 H&H, .404 Jeffery, .416 Rigby, .470 Nitro.... These are the rifles/cartridges that conjure visions. (paraphrasing Michael McIntosh from The Big-Bore Rifle) Enjoy your new rifle! -Bob F. | |||
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BFaucett now I will have trouble sleeping again ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} Thanks for the Coogan coffeine pill ![[Razz]](images/icons/tongue.gif){kind=icon} / JOHAN | ||
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Welcome and good hunting with the Ruger. I like the No. 1--it's the nicest Ruger made. Just curious, but why did you choose the single shot rather than a repeater? Not to second guess, but with a DGR, I like a CRF bolt action rifle with 4 or 5 extra rounds underneath the bolt in a drop box magazine. Even the Ruger M77 Mk II (which is far from my favorite bolt gun)--after a good going over by a gunsmith who knows his stuff--would make me happier than a rifle where "one shot's all you got." | |||
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Khorazanian where do you hunt in Arkansas? I hunt in South end of Drew county. | |||
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quote:I chose the single shot for several reasons. First, cost---several hundred $ less than the ruger bolt gun. Second, style---I love the No. 1, and the farquharson falling block design is a true classic. Third, the stock fits me much better than any bolt action gun I have tried, including the admittedly nice Ruger M77 Magnum. Mostly, this will be a fun gun, used to learn about powerful cartridges and classic rifles. I won't be taking it, or anything else, on an African hunting trip any time soon. Thus, I have plenty of time to "learn on" this gun. It will almost certainly be followed (not replaced) by a repeater or a double before I do any "serious" hunting. I like bolt guns too. :-) | |||
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quote:Hi, I live and hunt in Northwest Arkansas (washington county). Whitetails are small here, but there are some nice black bear and feral pigs that I have never pursued. I love this part of the state, for both the topography and the relatively temperate climate. | |||
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Unless your weather is different than a hour or so west of the border, then it's too dang hot right now! I'm in NE Okla and I'm ready for October! I'd sure would like to hunt those black bear! | |||
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quote:Yeah, it is pretty hot. I don't mind the heat much, though. As long as the wind is in my face, I can handle about any temps. (non-Saharan, anyway) I spent last summer in Jordan, and really loved the climate there. Beautifully hot and dry, with constant wind blowing both night and day. Autumn sure is nice, though. :-) | |||
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Well, I shot the new .416 today. I think I may be in love. :-) I used the heavy PAST pad, and fired 6 shots from the shoulder. There was zero pain! Just a really tremendous boom, and a heavy shove against my shoulder. I know the pad really helped spread the recoil force over a larger area, but I have been jabbed much worse by some lightweight carbines chambered in "standard" cartridges. I set up a big hardwood block at 25 yards, and covered it with a paper target. Off hand, I was able to shoot two three-shot groups averaging 3.75 inches, center to center. The gun shot about an inch low, at that range. I was really impressed with how easy it was too shoot. I love how that heavy barrel hangs steady on the target! I was hoping, though, for more target damage. The 410-grain softpoints easily penetrated 8 inches of hardwood to plow into the hillside behind, but only blew small holes in the wooden block (2 inch diameter exit holes). All in all, it was a great session, and very informative. As easy as the big gun was to shoot, I can't imagine why I didn't try this before! I think I may be addicted . . . . . . | |||
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Try Accurate Arms' XMP5744 with a 350 gr flat nose gas check hard cast bullet. 55 grains is a max load, so start at 50 and work up. Will give somewhere around 2200fps. I cast using wheelweights and tumble lube with liquid Alox from an RCBS mold. A very economical practice and deer load. Dirt cheap if you can connive the wheelweights for free. I wouldn't mess with black powder or a substitute. Hold on tight when you press that trigger! Have fun. | |||
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K, Wood is never a very dramatic target. you will see the exciting stuff when you start shooting cans of water etc. Also I think Woodleigh has fallen prey to the bullet penetration hype and they are making much tougher bullets. If a softpoint doesn't penetrate bone like a solid these days people call it a failure. Karl. | |||
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quote:Unfortunately, I was unable to recover any of the bullets. Heck, I have done a lot more damage with .44 magnum hollowpoints. :-) I bet the .44s wouldn't be very good on a big buff, though! Next time, I might try some big gallon jugs full of water. | |||
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Wood is never a very Dramatic Target when you start whopping small game with your .416 then you will see some spectacular results | |||
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quote:That sounds like fun. Ground hogs beware . . . . . . ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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K-- Your rationale for choosing the No. 1 over the M77 is yours alone and need not satisfy anyone but you--and I certainly didn't mean to imply anything else with my questions. But it has occurred to me that, once you've done your learning on it, you may want to consider taking it on a hunt for the traditional North American plains game animal--Bison bison. (Lest we forget, big bores are not only for African game.) It strikes me that, in this pursuit, your Ruger .416 single shot would be a worthy successor to the Sharps of old. And from your subsequent posts, I would also bet green money that the addition of a repeating DGR to your rifle battery will not be long in coming. Good shooting! | |||
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quote:I took absolutely no offense. I would love to hunt bison, with this or any other appropriate weapon. Indeed, there is a small bison ranching operation near my home, and I have always been hoping that one would go "rogue" while in the vicinity of me and a hot-loaded .44 magnum. Unfortunately, I don't know of any good hunting opportunities nearby. Where does one go to hunt bison in the lower 48? You are absolutely right. As soon as my finances can stand it, I will be purchasing a powerful bolt action repeater. I greatly admire both the Ruger 77 magnum and the current CZ 550 magnum (saw a gorgeous one the day before I bought the No.1, but don't care for the owners of the shop where I found it). I still regret the Whitworth in .458 Win. Mag that I let slip by a few years ago, as well as the used CZ 550 in .375 that I passed up shortly thereafter). My current leanings are toward a .375 H&H or even a 9.3x62, just to round out my growing battery. Right now, I am trying to weed out some of the dross in my collection (stuff I don't and never will use), while scratching persistent itches for things like Ruger No.1's and DGRs. ~John | |||
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Khranzian, the .375 and 9.3x62 are two very good calibers and they would be a great addition to your collection. Like you I am "breeding" a collection of big bore rifles and I can atest to the fact that CZ's are good rifles for people like me especially who are on stringent budgets. They are great quality for the price. | |||
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The only two rifle powders you should think of to shoot reduced loads in the 416 Rigby are Accurate XMP-5744 as mentioned before and IMR-SR4759. The accurate reloading manual is a good source or the Lyman Cast bullet manual. Be very careful using reduced loads of any other rifle powder in the large 416 size cases. Detonation is a distinct possibility. Speer may list some 4759 loads as well. Your next choice should be a NO.1 in 458 Win Mag. Now there's one you can play with on loading. I shoot from 500 fps to 2600 fps with mine. [ 07-21-2003, 05:03: Message edited by: Old & Slow ] | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores My first post, and my first "big bore" . . .
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