Gentlemen,

A recent member here. Have been following some threads with great interest. Some background - grew up in India...cut my teeth with a 450/400 3 1/4 Farquaharson falling block. Funny thing about that rifle...never needed to shoot anything twice . To cut a long story short, went to the US for about 25 years, back in India now...and have an opportunity to get my hands on a Jeffrey's 404J. It's at a dealer a few hundred miles away...I have some pictures and 2 of them concern me. Numbers 9 & 10! I am posting the pictures here and asking for advice. I am told by J. Roberts & Son tell me the rifle was indeed made by them in 1908. Waiting for more information from them. The dealer tells me the bore is 95% (???) but, without casting aspersions on anyone, who knows? Again, perhaps some of you more knowledgeable than me could give me some advice. The price is good though

Regards

Saeed Ansari

Pics 9 & 10 are what concern me.....

I apologise if this post in the wrong place ...mea culpa....

Yikes, the gun is resting on concrete! But, you did say the price was right. Looks like the seller does not place much value on it. I think I would drive the hundred miles and offer $300 cash money on that sucker.

quote:

Pics 9 & 10 are what concern me.....

EXACTLY what concerns you in pictures 9 and 10 ?


Can you be a bit more specific ?

Fourebore,

It is "supposed" to be an original Jeffery...so I reckon the $300 might be a bit off. What is off concern to me is that in the pic it looks as if the extractor broke and was welded back on (

500N,

Replied before I saw your post....please see my reply to Fourbore.....perhaps I am being paranoid...

mmmm, not sure, as some Mausers get marks there.

But either way, even if it had broken and been welded, so what ? You can always get another extractor.

For $300 or any reasonable price, go and buy the bloody thing.

The Rear sights are worth that alone.

Unless the bore is totally and utterly stuffed - which from the condition of the stock it doesn't seem likely as the gun doesn't seem to have done that much hard work, then $300 or any reasonable price, it is a bloody bargain.

Get in your car and go and get it. ASAP.

I was joking about the $300, but I seriously misunderstood your concern. Looks rough to set a fine old rifle on the concrete like that. I see the weld(?) in one of the middle photos 0393(?) I think is the name of the pic file? If that was a problem, perhaps a replacement part could be found. Hope you can get an answer here.

500N,

Lol....good point, however...in India one can only have "so" many firearms. 2. Being a big bore nut, I am tossing up about this one or going thru all the hassle of getting my father's 450/400 3 1/4 back from the dealer where it has been stored since he passed away and I wasn't here. Long story n more info than u need . Point is if the extractor broke n was welded back on, what is the reliability of the rifle now? You are right, it cannot have had many rounds through it, although poor maintenance/upkeep might negate that. But still...just looking for advice re the broken/welded extractor. Thanks much

Aaaah, I see the dilemma

I'd still buy it and get it stored where your fathers gun is stored and then decide


"Point is if the extractor broke n was welded back on, what is the reliability of the rifle now?"

Easy item to replace - and I am sure a few were on old guns !!!


Good luck.

quote:

however...in India one can only have "so" many firearms. 2

2 Good reason to stay in USA.

Fourbore,

Lol...spent too many years in Connecticut lol...lets not go there but thanks for the advice...I shall drive out, have a look at it and get back to you...and you are right...the price..$300 or whatever is incredible <big grin>

Were many of the early rifles, excepting military of course, fitted with barrels with such a pronounced transition from the cylindrical to the taper so far down the length. That is the first I have seen although I have not researched this observation yet.

Von Gruff.

Von Gruff, gives me cause to go back and look at he photos. I see a lot of curious details: bent bolt, trigger guard, sight design (and barrel) This looks like a military conversion to me. I am no expert, but wonder is that something Jeffery would do?

I love the classic style old look and a 404J.

Yes that is something Jeffery did on all its Mauser rifles before Rigby Lost its right to sole distribution of Oberndorf products in the UK. It is called the 1905 model rifle according to old catalogs. After 1912 or so Jeffery rifles used magnum length actions for the .404, before that time military actions were converted. The bent bolt handle and opened up ejection port are typical on these rifles, as is that barrel profile. I have a #2 grade, better wood and engraving that is currently undergoing a restoration. Cool rifles indeed.

It is amazing sometimes to think about how little has changed and how little has improved since this model 1905. Or fast forward to 1912. By then we had the 404J, 375HH, 416Rigby and 505Gibbs in magnum Mausers. What the heck, toss the 7x57 and 30-06 on the rack to round out the selection of bolt rifles.

According to Jeffrey's the rifle was made in 1908....I have an opportunity to get my hands on it for approx. $2000/-

buy it!

skb,

I am sorely tempted! There is also an H&H 375 by H&H that I want to check out. The problem is, in India, you can only have so many firearms (licensing etc etc). The asking price on the 375 is roughly $8k. Thanks for the advice though, I am being very tempted by this...if for nothing else then to be a little different!

There is a practical consideration - if, it is a choice between 375HH and 404J and that is ammo availability and selection of loads and components.

It has to be tough to be limited in number of guns. Then the other factor for you is: what other rifle you have or plan on buying.

This is the first time I heard of a "REAL" if I could only have X number of long guns, what would they be.

Fourbore,

I know...normally 3 is all one can have here!!! Sucks and to think I spent 20 odd years somewhere in New England!
Of course, ammo availability for the 375 would be much better...but then again 404J ammo is available now. So one of those for now...also looking at a 318 WR (I'm an old English rifle nut)..but ammo there will be an issue so maybe a 30 of some sort...30-06 easiest in terms of ammo..or 7x57. Choices choices

Esskay, Get the 404, add a 7x57 and you can do it all with just two rifles, leaving one spot for a purely frivolous choice.

Von Gruff.

Von Gruff,

Now why did I think you would say that? But yes, that is a combination that makes much sense. Thanks

Esskay, buy it now before it gets away, I don't think the mark on the extractor is any more than an abrasion from passing through the bridge area. Even if it is a repair it is an easy thing to replace. You won't find many as nice as this!
Steve

Buy it,
then sell it to me to import to the US

I guess I can't see the "weld".

Is it the dark line 2/3 of the way toward the claw portion of the extractor?

It may be a simple discoloration of the metal( rust, etc).

I cannot envision welding this.

If, tack welded through a hole drilled in the extractor to the attach to the collar that is easily remedied--- so long as the bolt was not affected by the heat.

Extractors and collars are easily obtained.( at least here in the US)

I want it too.
Buy it and sell it to me.
The .404 Jeffery of 1905 is the first ever Bolt Action DGR.
It has never been improved upon.

I would find out for certain what the bore is .416 or .423.

You think they put a heavy enough barrel on it?

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the encouragement.

Doug you raise an interesting point. Some research tells me that "some" of the earlier ones had bores of 418, which were later changed to 423!! Ouch! Would anyone know when this change took place? This one was made in 1908 according to Jeffrey. If it is the 418 bore then it is effectively a wall hanger for me...as reloading here is ummm shall we say not quite possible!!!

Or I could just drive down to the dealer and have him fire a few rounds of the Kynoch ammo he has while I stand some distance away

quote:

Originally posted by Esskay:
Gentlemen,

Thank you for the encouragement.

Doug you raise an interesting point. Some research tells me that "some" of the earlier ones had bores of 418, which were later changed to 423!! Ouch! Would anyone know when this change took place? This one was made in 1908 according to Jeffrey. If it is the 418 bore then it is effectively a wall hanger for me...as reloading here is ummm shall we say not quite possible!!!

The pressure of the Kynoch loads should not be an issue as they were loaded to moderate pressures.

Squeezing an extra .005 should not bee too great an issue in a 98 action; as we routinely load magnums to 65,000+ in many "newer" rounds.

Many a .318 Mauser 98 has digested .323 loads without serious consequences.

But, just in case it is a .418 you should definitely sell it to me for safety reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by Esskay:
Some background - grew up in India...cut my teeth with a 450/400 3 1/4 Farquaharson falling block. Funny thing about that rifle...never needed to shoot anything twice .

....

Being a big bore nut, I am tossing up about this one or going thru all the hassle of getting my father's 450/400 3 1/4 back from the dealer where it has been stored since he passed away and I wasn't here.

If it were me, I would want one of my three to be the one I used growing up, that was my fathers.

After that, the .404 or .375 would be icing on the cake.

Apologies as I know that isn't exactly what you asked. Best of luck to you.

Duggaboye & Charles,

Yes the 450/400 31/4 ..but it just needs some paperwork to get back in my hands, and obviously that is an inheritance. Farquaharson falling block by Army & Navy CSL

Did some more research and apparently the Jeffrey was always a .423 bore, some other manufacturers used a .418 bore to start with and then changed to the larger bore later. I will ask Jeffrey's for confirmation on that. The dealer has a 100 rounds of Kynoch to go with it...now if I can only find someone to make me a couple of hundred rounds w 300 grn GSC or Barnes or something like that at around 2700 or so...heck I would'nt need anything else

I load the Barnes TSX in Mine --about$1.00 each , getting handloads to to India--priceless

"Did some more research and apparently the Jeffrey was always a .423 bore"

I thought so.

"the 450/400 31/4 ..but it just needs some paperwork to get back in my hands, and obviously that is an inheritance. Farquaharson falling block by Army & Navy CSL"

Hard not to go after a rifle with family ties.

Duggaboye,

Lol! I meant finding a "custom" shop that will load a couple 300 rounds for me. Getting them here should not be an insurmountable problem

Glad to hear you will be getting your father's rifle back.

I have used Superior Ammo in the past if you think you can get the ammo home from the States.

Charles,

Thank you. I shall write to them and find out. And yes, I am definitely getting the 450/400 back. The first time I shot it, I must have been probably 16. Was petrified of the kick of the "elephant gun"...(had been reading a lot of the African stories). Guess what? Shotguns kick a heck of a lot more

I like the shape of the stock and its color.I was wondering if the barrel was made that way to distribute most of the weight over the forearm.