I have some new dies thanks to 2RECON, Michael of Germany, made by Triebel.

The Triebel dies are shown here:

9,5x70 Mag

www.triebel-guntools.de











Built like a Mercedes.
The homemade dies I was using are also shown.

And a pic of the loaded cartridge is one from 2RECON.

IIRC, 2RECON designed this cartridge at the behest of a fellow German, and Waffen Jung has made some top-quality Mauser rifles so Chambered.

2RECON is also co-designer of the "49-10" aka 12.5x68 "Tornado."

My experience with herding Tornado cats:

300 Lapua Magnum
.338 Lapua Magnum 8.6x70
.375/.338 Lapua Magnum 9.5x70 ".375 Tornado"
.423/.338 Lapua magnum
.458/.338 Lapua Magnum
.500/.338 Lapua Magnum 12.7x68 "49-10"

Here is a pic of a .375 Tornado (9.5x70 Magnum) from 2RECON:



BTW, the case capacity of the .375 Tornado is identical to that of the .375/404 Jeffery Saeed.
It has heavier brass capable of 70K psi, and is fatter and shorter than the .375/404 JS.
It has its appealing qualities, but is not the perfect size for a Mauser magazine box,
whereas the .375/404 JS is.

Hi RIP,

Thanx for those beautiful pictures.
Happy that they´ve made it across the big pond.

Yes, most of the time i´m working with "home made" tools too (see forming the .49-10 brass) but when a cartridge is ready to be CIP-listed, i let TRIEBEL make a Set of Tools.

I REALY would like to see how Michael458`s made BBW#13 Bullets would work in that round. Usually i load 300grs. SWIFT A-Frames.....

RIP, realy would like to have you here at the IWA-Fair to show you some of the finest Take-Down-Mauser-Magnums made on this planet.
Imagine a Take Down in 9,5x70 with a second Barrel in 12,7x68 / .49-10...

Best
2RECON

Triebeltools is the finest I believe too.

BTW..what is the COL. of the .375Tornado?.
What ballistic can be expected with bulletweights from 260-350grains?.

Thanks for sharing RIP.
Happy New Year.

Hi Jens,

yes, finest, and worth the prize...

COL (Hunting Bullets like Swift AF) 88,5mm / 3.484"
COL (Match/Tactical Bullet like my MIG-IV)98mm
3.858"
Swift AF 300grs. will go 860/m/sec (2821fps)giving 7188Joule ( 5302ft.-lbs)
Best Powders so far NORMA MRP, VV-560, IMR 7878

You´ll find the 9,5x70 also listed at "Quick-Load.

Happy New Year

2RECON

Vielen Danke 2RECON!.

The ol`Hermann Göring 9,3x70 isn`t far behind the new 9,5mm Tornado.

Waidmann Heil.

So kinda like a .378 Weatherby?

2RECON,
I noted my 12.5 typo and corrected it to 12.7 above.
And thanks for reminding me that the 9.5x70 is listed in QuickLOAD as the "9.5 Tornado."

Here is another top load, I use H4350 Extreme in mine:
100% burn and very close to 100% case filling
for about 2850 fps with a 300-grainer in a 26" barrel,
right about 63,000 PSI, sub maximal



Hizzie,
It is much better than the .378 Weatherby, for various reasons.

The other Tornado: .500 Tornado, 12.7 Tornado, "49-bore/.500-caliber/.338 Lapua Magnum of 2010"

On this side of the pond, Rifle No. 2 chambered for the 12.7x68/49-10 is under construction:

Action: BRNO ZKK 602
Barrel: Stainless "Super Match" Pac-Nor No. 6 sporter contour, 24" length
Safety: Wisner M70 Winchester-style 3-position
Stock: McMillan medium brown color molded in, with stainless steel pillars and hidden crossbolts
Muzzle brake: Vais, the better to develop load data with

Has Waffen Jung chambered the 9.5x70 in one of these beauties?







I did mine before I new what to call it, so it was designated ".375/.338 Lapua Magnum," and I thought I had done something original.



Gotta go beat a pot with a wooden spoon to bring in the new year.
HAPPY NEW YEAR 2012!

Good Morning and HAPPY NEW YEAR to all.

@Hizzie,

yes, close to.
The main difference is the brass used.
I personaly (ONLY my opinion)don´t like belted Cases, so this one is based on the .338 Lapua Mag.This Cases are able to stand about 68K psi, so loaded to about 60-62K that brass will last a LONG time.
Compared to the Weatherby it´ll give you a moore "shootable" platform. Have shot both of the "big" Weatherby´s from MK-V Rifles and will not do that again.

@RIP,

YES, Jung has made some of this.
Last one i saw at the IWA-Fair was a Take-Down chambered .416Rigby having a second Barrel for .338Lapua beautifully engraving and a breathtaking Stock,2 ZEISS Scopes in a handmade case that went to Russia for about 65k$.

Don´t know what # your Quick-Load has, since 3.6 the Round is in as 9,5 x 70.

Best
2RECON

@RIP,

thinking about the BBW#13 300grs. to be used in that Case.
Don´t have the dimensions of the CEB Bullet so calculated (Quick-Load) using a 300grs.BarnesX.
Think 94grs. of H4831sc COL=3.7" should give about 2700fps at a warm 55k psi....
Mayby a load to start from........

Best
2RECON

2RECON,
Thanks for the data.
I was saving the CEB .375-caliber order for the new year, 2012.
Will get some of those 300-grainers and the new ESP .375/230-grainers with Raptor tips.

Assuming similar throating, any loads for the 9.5x70 Magnum will be interchangeable in the .375/404 Jeffery Saeed,
as long as pressures are kept down to 63,000 psi.

I love that H4831-SC for 300-grainers at 2700 fps and 55,000 PSI only.

Will check that in QuickLOAD ... and note what older version I have. 3.6 is latest?

The original .338Lapua case is known for having thick casewalls. I was thinking regarding case volume of using ordinary .416Rigby brass Norma to increase the volume?.I am sure the casewalls of the standard .416Rigby cases are fine for several reloads .

Jens,
That would work fine.
I have sectioned Norma-made .416 Rigby case heads and do not see much difference from what they use for the Norma-made.338 Lapua Magnum.
Surely it is the same for economies of scale,
bean counters being what they are, world over.

However, I am all set with the Lapua-made .338LM brass necked up to .375.
When you do that, it leaves the "dreaded donut" at the shoulder-neck juncture, neck-1.
That is where the thicker brass in the shoulder of the .338LM becomes part of the new neck of the .375/.338LM.
One can just seat Sierra 300-grain SPBT GameKings down to where the boat tail abutts that donut, fire form, then inside-neck ream the cartridge.
Then it is ready for resizing and use of any bullet.
The inside-neck reamer is shown in the RCBS box on the right in this photo: Little yellow-capped plastic vial in a plastic bag.



Now, if properly headstamped brass from Horneber is available, and not soft,
then I will have to add a "9.5x70 Mag. Tornado" stamping to my barrel.

2RECON,
I see I have version 3.5.03 of 2009 QuickLOAD.
I will look into updating.

The H4350 will be better with 230-grainers at 3200 fps.

The H4831SC will be the cat's meow for all 300-grainers at 2800 to 2900 fps, with mild powder compression.
2700 to 2800 fps at lower pressure, no compression, full case, is better.

COL between 3.470" and 3.800" has minor impact on velocity and pressure in this excellent cartridge.
Depends on throat and bullet shape, what can be used.
My rifle has the throat of a .375 Weatherby.
.3700" of parallel-sided freebore, but nice and tight diameters.
See the CIP .375 Weatherby throat of 2001.

Is the 9.5x70 Magnum/Tornado CIP approved now?

Any history of the development would be appreciated.
This is the earliest info I have on it, from Ed Reynolds at AccuLoad, found after I independently developed the cartridge.

WHAT THE HELL......

Where´s this BS from...???

To make it clear.
WAFFEN JUNG has NOTHING to do with that development.
In 2002 i asked them if they had any interest building Rifles for that Round. At that Time it was named .375 BRANDT. Jung made a Cardbord-Ammo-Box showing a Buffalo (Cape) and the Name 9,5 TORNADO on it to show that at the IWA-Fair.

For one simple reason the 9,5x70 is not listed at CIP jet.
There´s a new "law" meaning that you can only list a Cartridge if you have brass with the correct Headstamp.
I´m now waiting for more than 1 year to get this (pre-paid btw) brass to do the final test.
Everything is set-up, Testbarrel at the proove-house, pre-testing using Lapua / Hornady / Norma and PPU - Brass + Swift / Sierra / Hornady Bullets.

So, now i´ll have to find this Ed Reynolds ...

Best
2RECON

Whoa down there Hoss,
don't kill the messenger!

Phillipe Regenstreif,
The Cartridge Researcher, ECRA
Leige, Belgium,
No. 452, pg. 11, 1-1-2003,
seems to be the source that Ed Reynolds was quoting.

We are ready for the true story.
What was the working relationship between 2RECON and Mr. Brandt?

Ok ok.........

step by step.
Some of you may know a round named 7mm KM.7mm Katzmaier Magnum. It´s a 7mm-.338Lapua Mag. Wolfgang Katzmaier was working at H&K in the R&D Department. He was my "Master" when i started designing Wildcats.He helped me doing the 7,62UKM.What i´ve leared i leared from him.
Must be about End of 2000 Beginning 2001 i got a phonecall from Mr.Brandt.He was shooting a 7mmKM and we discussed different loads. "Quick-Load"was used on both ends of the line.
Finally he asked íf i had an idea about a smaler Round than his .416Rigby chambered in a Mauser 66 having the same Headsize.I told him to look for the .338Lapua, but he whanted something more "Afrika-legal" meaning something .375Diameter.
The Idea to neck down the .416 to .375 had only a short life...so clear. Way to mutch capacity AND not enough pressure allowed. Will never realy work.
So we ended up to neck the 338Lapua Case up to hold .375Diam. Bullets.
I´ve made Cartridge and Chamber drawings, send them to TRIEBEL and have them made Reamers,Gauges, and Loading dies.Also there was a Test-Barrel made( a Heym one) that was used by DEVA ( a highly recomended Test Institut) to do the Gas-pressure tests.I developed two save loads using HORNADY RN and SWIFT AF bullets both 300grs. Mr.Brandt let his Gunsmith made a Barrel for the ".375BRANDT" and went to Namibia hunting Oryx,Kudu,Wildebeast and Boars.
It was a gentleman´s agreement that if i could make him that Round i can have it for my own. Meaning the "Rights" to sell it or whatever...
So End of 2001 i contacted several of the "big names" in Germany making Big Bore Rifles, H&W, Ritterbusch, Prechtl and WAFFEN Jung to find out if someone would build Rifles in that Caliber. From that Point on i called it 9,5x70.
Waffen Jung was interested, and they made a Ammo-Box showing a cape-buffalo and named the Round 9,5 TORNADO. Tornado is one of their Brand name. This Box was placed close to a 2 Barrel Take down Mauser Mag Rifle at the IWA-Fair in 2002.
Some customers asked the prize, there was an artikel in a german gun magazine but that´s it.
Untill today i know 6 Rifles were build in that caliber based mostly on Mauser and Sako actions,
one is made on a SWS-2000 Action.Right now, two german gunsmith are building their first prototype-actions that can handle that round.

Yes, and some Time ago i was reading something from a funny guy named "RIP" that was toying around with Lapua brass necked up to WHAT ???

So, thats the hole story....

Best
2RECON

2RECON,
Gee, that's cool.
Thanks for sharing.
Now we know the rest of the story.
Let us know if you ever get any Horneber brass for this baby.

@RIP,

have a confirmed delivery note saying that i´ll get the first Lot of 1000 Cases "End of January"..we´ll see.
If you like to have some let me know.

Just saw that "HEYM-Martini" on Big Bores.....hmmm.....nice Gun, offered in .416Rigby too... Think i should contact the HEYM Guy´s at the IWA-Fair....look if they are interested....375 or /and .500 Caliber...

Best
2RECON