I am just now having a 458 Win Mag built, I intend to use this as an option for a Brown Bear hunt in SE Alaska.

I have a few short(er) barreled rifles, 18.5" and really like the handiness of them. I am considering having the barrel on this 458 at 19".

I intend to shoot full power loads with soft point 500gr range bullets. I do not like muzzle brakes and don't intend to use one on this rifle. I am familiar with hard recoiling non-braked rifles, I have no problem with recoil.

I am mostly curious about the efficiency of the 458 mag in a short(er) barreled rifle.

Is there any member here with experience with a short(er) barreled 458 type rifle and if so I would really appreciate some thoughts and lessons learned.

TIA

quote:

Originally posted by DKing:
I am just now having a 458 Win Mag built, I intend to use this as an option for a Brown Bear hunt in SE Alaska.

I have a few short(er) barreled rifles, 18.5" and really like the handiness of them. I am considering having the barrel on this 458 at 19".

I intend to shoot full power loads with soft point 500gr range bullets. I do not like muzzle brakes and don't intend to use one on this rifle. I am familiar with hard recoiling non-braked rifles, I have no problem with recoil.

I am mostly curious about the efficiency of the 458 mag in a short(er) barreled rifle.

Is there any member here with experience with a short(er) barreled 458 type rifle and if so I would really appreciate some thoughts and lessons learned.

TIA

I have 2 458's & a 376 Steyr w/22" tubes that is the magic# for my tastes

20-21 inches.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

The 458wm loves longer barrels. So only as short as you "must." I would do 23", but I don't mind that barrel length, while you seem to prefer shorter.

JPK

I have a few 458 and found 22" to be perfect for me. I definitely wouldn't go shorter than 20." Lou

I have a 21 inch Watts, it is handy in tight spaces, points well, handles great and muzzle blast is not a problem. It shoots factory Hornady Lott ammo 2260 fps across the chrony which is only 40 fps slower than claimed factory velocities for three inches less barrel.

I say go for it if that is what you want and figure 15-20 fps loss per inch of barrel length.

Jeff

I think it depends on your barrel weight and profile.

For Balance a thinner profile at 22 to 23 inches will feel just as good in the hands as a fat bull barrel at 19 inches

The advantage of cause is the longer barrel will help increases down range speed and energy

If it feels OK go for it, but IMO I do think you are handicapping the old 458 at that length, you might also consider a faster burning powder so it doesn't blow a 4 foot flame out the muzzle

regards
S&F

My 458 is a European custom gun I picked up. It has a 23" barrel which is pretty standard on European mausers. I would agree with everything that has been said about 22/23" barrels and add that I was having a devil of a time getting 2100fps from my rifle with a 23" tube. Only after getting some help from the guys here did I find a combination that will make 2100fps or the equivalent with lighter bullets. Kudude

Unless you plan to hunt elephant I wouldn't worry too much if you don't make 2,150 fps with a 500 grain bullet in a 458 Win. Bears don't take as much killing as an elephant. 1900 to 2000 fps should be plenty. It certainly is for bears from the 45-70.

465H&H

A dose of reality. The .458 win mag really needs a longer barrel. 24-26 inches will get you the realistic 2150fps. Try fluting the barrel if you want less weight but don't sacrafice barrel length. Your gonna lose about 35fps for each inch less than 26. At 21 inches you might as well carry a hot loaded Marlin 45-70. you'll see 1900fps with a 500gr bullet. That might in fact be fine for bears.-Rob

Thanks for the many replies and information.

The desire for a short barrel is to make the rifle handy and quick in brush country, it is not my intent to shorten the barrel to reduce the weight of the rifle. The barrel I will use is a #5 Shilen, none to heavy I would say.

I don't currently have plans to hunt elephant although a trip to Africa will happen before too many years pass. I should mention that just a few months ago I didn't have any plans to hunt brown bear either. The brown bear came upon us (my wife and I) quick and my/our hunt is this fall.

I may make a short test while I have the opportunity, leave the barrel long then incrementally trim it back while checking loads over my Oehler.

21-22inches will work well and should keep velocities above 2000, it will also carry nicely in the alders. If you go below 21 inches you my as well carry a 45-70 because your velocities will most likely be below 2000 fps. I have a 458 Lott that has a 21.5 inch barrel and I have to load it up (albeit not hot) to get 2100fps.

Many posters underestimate the performance available from the 458wm. I refer you all to the Hornaday manual. 500grs at 2200fps or even more, out of a 24" barrel does not compute to sub 2000fps with 500grs out of a 21 or 22" barrel.

JPK

John,
I believe DKing hints that he is going to reload for his 458 so it might be hard for him to find the velocity he desires with a short barrel. Yes, if he uses factory Hornady or Federal as you well know they use a special blend of powders to acheive those velocities with safe pressures. And I stand corrected, in a 22 inch barrel I believe he can reload to above 2000fps, maybe not sub 21inch.

On my Lott the barrel is 24'' or 26''. I'll Have to weight to get a correct lenth. My light in my safe isn't working to well.

Here's my Mark X at 20", very handy.

I get 2100 fps with 500 gr Hornady bullets from my 20 inch 458 and 2300 with 400 gr Swifts and Kodiaks so don't believe the bunk about short barreled 458's being nothing but a hot 45-70.

If you want an easy to carry, handy & powerful stopper then a 20 inch 458 will work just fine. I have been carrying one for twenty-five years

Just FYI: Here's a nice article by Mr. Shoemaker about his .458 rifle.

Beauty and the Beast
A serious look at a serious rifle!
Model 98 Mauser .458 Winchester Magnum
from Rifle Magazine, July-August 2003
by Phil Shoemaker


http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/article.cfm?tocid=1043&magid=75

Cheers!
-Bob F.

I wanted that for a license plate but Oregon regulations won't allow it! Going to have to settle for 93x62

Great info and thanks for the replies.

The barrel is here, a #5 Shilen is pretty thin on the muzzle end (.700), leaves me with a pretty light rifle when done.

I called to chat with the fella I am hunting with this fall, he carries a 458 Win also, a Winchester. He also suggests short(er) for the bush but stated that in his opinion real short barrels seem more difficult to point shoot. That being said and considering the reports here I believe I will see how easy it would be to shoot and trim to maybe 20" or 21" vice 19".

I spent the day driving around looking for 458 Win brass but no luck at Cabela's or Bass Pro (458 Lott seems popular and readily available). Tomorrow I will make an order from MidwayUSA or such and get a hundred or so brass and couple hundred bullets of the various expanding types.

In a few days the reamer will be at the smith and I suspect the barrel will be fit before too long. I don't want to make too much work of the barrel length testing affair but I may give it a go with a light(er) control loading of 500 Hornady RN.

Thanks again for the replies, very informative and enjoyable.

Dking,
Right now the only brass in .458 win is Norma. I just don’t want to pay that much for brass. $36.99 per 20
I have 500 horanady on back order at Midway. Most of the manufactures only make "a seasonal run" They seam to have long seasons.
Bill

Bill Cooley

I placed an order with MidwayUSA late Sunday afternoon and reportedly got the last two 50 count boxes of Hornady 458 brass. Also ordered the last box of Barnes TSX 450 and then 2 boxes of 500 Hornady RN (more remain of these I'd venture). I will try to load some up this week and next weekend, I am hoping the rifle will be barreled by that point so I can test fire and adjust before having it beadblasted and blued.

I am considering shortening the stock about .5 to 1 inch or so to 12.5" to 13" LOP. I believe I may need to add some weight in the butt for balance but we will see later.

Phil, can you please tell us what kind of safety you use on that "Ole Ugly"? I thought I saw a Win70, but the pic's were not so good.

Thanks,

Bent, I do have a side swinging safety on my 458 Mk X. I originally started with a safety on the left side that swung down - like the older BRNO sporters - and preferred it as I felt it was more natural and a bit faster - but when i got started testing other rifles and using them for backup, where instinct and muscle memory play an important part, I found myself searching for my safety so decided to keep all the safety's the same on my working rifles.

Can we perhaps see some actual chrono results for 2100fps with 500 gr bullets from a 20 inch .458 win Mag? A simple scan would be fine.-Rob

A picture makes ones word more credable?

Just shot my friends ele rifle... a 458 Win Mod 70 22 inch barrel...bedded and express sights added by NECG and it is driving tacks...at 40 yds was hitting a 3 inch bull with all shots off hand... It you cut off too much barrel I feel you will loose to much velocity and If dry outside will start fires with the blast... I would stay at 21 or 22 inches... Shlooting 450 tsx an solids it was more then managable very nice to shoot....

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by DKing:
Bill Cooley

I placed an order with MidwayUSA late Sunday afternoon and reportedly got the last two 50 count boxes of Hornady 458 brass. Also ordered the last box of Barnes TSX 450 and then 2 boxes of 500 Hornady RN (more remain of these I'd venture). I will try to load some up this week and next weekend, I am hoping the rifle will be barreled by that point so I can test fire and adjust before having it beadblasted and blued.

I am considering shortening the stock about .5 to 1 inch or so to 12.5" to 13" LOP. I believe I may need to add some weight in the butt for balance but we will see later.

That’s interesting, they never emailed me they had any in stock. Perhaps because I am back order on the 500 count boxes and not the 50. Well I will just have to shoot my Lott. I am loading some with 75 gr Varget and the 500 gr Hornady interlock. I am also trying some loaded with that old standby 72 gr 3031.
I would be careful about getting to short length of pull, I have found that hard recoiling guns may be easier to shoot with slightly longer stocks. Obviously the rifle must fit you in the type of clothing you will most likely be wearing when you hunt.
Bill

I got around to the first test firing of the rifle.

The barrel is at 22" for this info.

New Hornady brass, CCI 250 primer, Hornady 500 Interlock, Varget powder.

Oehler at ~ 6ft.

70gr Varget (3 shots) = 1,948fps, stdev 14.2fps
73gr Varget (5 shots) = 2,026fps, stdev 5.6fps

The rifle as test fired weighed 7lbs, 6oz (no base, rings or scope).

I believe I'll leave it alone at 22", it feels short and handy (probably the weight). There is no brake (and none planned) and the recoil was a little stout but not unpleasant or painful (but there is some bruising).

There are some more suitable powders if I need a speed increase but the Varget is fine (I have 16lbs of it on my bench) and I don't believe the bear will notice.

As a side note, I had this built as I couldn't find a used 458 for the hunt. The day I test fired this custom rifle I went to my local gunshop and they had just gotten 2 used 458's in on consignments; I bought the Remington 700 (1981 era) as a spare.