I have a couple of P-14 actions that are crying out to be used. One will be a 45-70 but that is a differnet thread. For now, I am thinking of putting together an elk rifle. I am leaning to the .338. The velocities seem to be the same for it versus the 375 with the same bullet weights. The .338 would therefore give better sectinal densities, B.C. and better penetration all things being equal. The .338 is said to have better case life and ammo is easiar to come by. Handloading is said to be less fussy with the .338. The last thing that comes to mind is I won't have to fuss with lengthening the action with the .338.

I may sell it someday. The .375 has the "cool" factor, to me, the .338 seems more practical. Assuming first class work would you rather own a .338 or a .375?

As someone who owns both calibers (my 375 is a 375 Taylor, though) I would say the .338 is a better elk rifle. Just a better long-range rig and, as you mention, doesn't need an H&H length magazine. Of course, I've always configured the sighting system on my .375 (peep sights and Leupold 2.5x compact) as a close range/brush/coastal brown bear rig. If you really want the coolness of the 3/8th bore w/o magazine modificaitons, you could go the way I did - the .375 Taylor, aka .375-338 Win

Scota4570,

The .375 H&H is hard to beat - Versatility is unequaled - From Whitetail to Elephant.

.375 H&H - Federal ammo 260 grain Accubond.

384 Yards - Red Stag - more or less - 19





Roland

Scota4570,
I used a .338WM on the one elk I shot, but if you want an elk-killing round par excellence, look at the .340 Wby.

George

And then there is the .375 Weatherby which will outdo all of the mentioned cartridges and is more versatile because it can even slow the standard .375 H&H ammo down to super-effective slow motion.

If it is an elk specific rifle, the .338WM/.340wby. are hard to beat. Very flat shooting w/ something like the 225grNAB @ 2800fps. Drop to a 210grNP @ 2900fps+ for longer shots & 250grNP @ 2600fps for closer cover shots. The rifle can also be made up in a reasonable weight (8.5-9#) & still be comfortable to shoot.

If you really want an elk rifle try a 30-06...but then the rest will certainly work as well...

With a big action like the enfield, it just seems a shame to use such a small caliber round...I would be building a 416 Rigby or 500 or a 505...Use a Mauser 98 or an Fn for the 375 or 338 , both great cartridges...

Ray, or anyone else, can you point me to a book, books, or websites that go into detail about fabricating parts and modifying American Enfields for the larger cartridges suggested? I can probably get by on common sense and experience but, would prefer to learn from other's and not waste too much time backtracking.

I agree with Ray, mostly. An '06 with 180's is fine, though I would prefer a 300 WinMag or 338 even moreso. But to use a P-14 for it, just seems a shame. I have designed a 2.85" Rigby case, improved to more or less modern taper, and it holds the same as the original. That would be awesome in a P-14. Or better yet, the .458" version....
I would not want to traipse around for days in elk territory hefting that monster action, when a M70 338 Sporter would do as good a job as anything.

Scota4570 if you're looking for books on P14 conversions, I can think of 2 ... I own both. First, "The Modern Gunsmith" by James V. Howe ... excellent for metal work and blueing. Second, "Gunsmithing" by Roy F. Dunlop. Both excellent reads and source material. They were written a few years ago, 1950's, but not much has changed in the conversion process. Good luck

Grove nailed it, two very good books.

Thanks guys. I have both of those books. They do have many good ideas. I have gone farther than they suggest on the aestetic front.

I am looking for more advanced information. For example, I am interested in magazine box dimensions. Do I take several cartridges and stick the noses in clay. Then arrange them as they would sit in a magazine box, and measure them. Then build my box with a little wiggle room?

As I play with boxes I have found that little rails can be added to prevent cartridges form moving foreward under recoil. They can also be added to reduce friction. That kind of detailed stuff.

Also not covered in those books is an idea about cock on opening conversions. Someone, on this site, recently suggested that I could move the cocking piece foreward on the striker. Then recut the cocking cam. I am assuming one needs to cut another slot at the cocking piece end of the striker. That sounds logical, but, now we have insufficient protrusion as the cocking piece is bottoming out on the bold shroud.

I guess what I am looking for is "Graduate School" American Enfield conversions. Anyone put that kind of stuff on paper?

The American gunsmith guild magazine had an excellent two part article in their magazine about making an enfield into a 416 Rigby, and a 505 Gibbs. I'm kicking myself for not filing the copy I had. It was someone on this forum that sent me a copy, so maybe someone else here would be willing to make a copy.

I agree that the enfield action should at least have a full length H&H case sized round used. My current enfield was built as a 500 Jeffrey.

For a purpose built elk rig, the hot 33's are hard to beat, but if you want to go slightly off the beaten track, the 358 STA would be my choice. With a longer tube, you can launch 250's a bit over 3000 fps, or go with the 270 North forks at around 2900 fps. That 270 gr load has it equalling the trajectory of a 340 W with 250's, and outpacing the 375 with 270's.

This is great, thank for all the help. I have specific questions and ideas. Let's move this up to the gunsmithing forum.

I've carried and used .375 H&H rifles on various elk hunts off and on for the last 24 years, but I've carried .300 Win. Mag. and .338 Win. Mag. rifles a great deal more, and these last two rounds are my standard elk cartridges.

Quite honestly, I will never carry a .375 H&H after elk ever again. The .300 Win. Mag. and .338 Win. Mag. kill elk every bit as well as the .375 H&H does, plus rifles for the .300 and .338 are a good deal lighter, so they're easier to carry up the mountain on foot, and they're easier to carry on horseback as well. The ammo is lighter to carry as an added bonus.

The .375 H&H offers no advantage at all on elk -- it's just a greater burden to carry. I guess you can convince yourself that a bullet from a .375 will hit an elk and levitate him, following with an airplane spin and finishing with the body slam, while bullets from the .338 Win. Mag. merely bounce off or other wise fail somehow.

But in the real world -- and I've taken many elk over the last thirty years -- it just doesn't work out that way. Elk go down quickly to good bullet placement and good bullet construction a from an adequate caliber, and there are a LOT of adequate elk cartridges around. Elk are not bullet-proof, not that hard to kill, and they don't require African cartridges in order to ensure a clean kill. I'd carry a .375 if I didn't have anything else, but I'd rather take a .30-06, 7mm magnum, .300 magnum, or .338 any day of the week instead.

To get back to your original question, if you can't kill any elk that walks this earth with a .338 Win. Mag., you're not going to kill him with anything else............

AD

I have shot several elk with both the .338 WM and .375 HH and honestly cannot tell the difference between them on elk. However, if you build the .375 HH and decide you want to hunt cape buffalo, then you are all set!

In my experience both calibers are on the big side for elk. I have killed numerous elk in several different states over the years and have never used anything bigger than a 7mm Rem. Mag. I also have never had to put more than one shot on any of the elk I've taken.

That being said, I don't see why you need a .338 or especially a .375! (geez) to kill elk. I personally would take a smaller caliber rifle that's lighter and easier to shoot, so that my bullet placement would be that much better. As long as you're shooting an adequate bullet, the shot placement is really all that matters. Now if you plan to use it on larger game some day, then maybe go with the bigger caliber.

Fusino,
You are probably correct, but only if like you say you pick your shots...

Unfortunately in Idaho thick black timber I have not that luxury and about every year have to stick a bullet up the bulls keyster as he fades out of sight in that thick stuff....no more side hill shots in the evening where I hunt, they don't go there until full dark and I also won't shoot elk late in the evening as it gets dark fast and many are lost that way....

I quit using my 06 some years back and went to the .338 with 300 gr. woodleighs or my 9.3 with 320 gr. or 375 with 350 grs. and any one of these up his tube will stick his nose in the dirt at the shot, I guarentee....A lighter gun cannot be depended on to do this every time. Thus my choice.

^^Very true...thick timber and less than optimum shot opportunities would dictate a bigger caliber. Good point...I have been fortunate to hunt elk in situations where heavy cover was almost never a factor. Even though hunting in cover can be real fun.