All this talk of hyped -up big bore leverguns and big game has got me worked up some . HehHehHeh . Was just thinking about the .405s now being made , new factory cases available , and wondering just what the cartridge would do in a modern 1895 with our newer powders........

I see that the case is close to the same length as the .458 , so you have a fairly large powder capacity to work with.....
The 1895 has a box magazine , so that would eliminate some of the difficulties the tube magazines have . Also , the magazine is at least long enough to hold 30/06 cartridges......
Also , the 1895 must be somewhat stronger than the 1886 / M71 actions , being chambered in 06 and .270 , and extraction must be fairly positive or it couldn't handle the .270 well ......

All of which make me wonder if a 400 gr bullet , seated out as far as possible in a properly throated barrel ,and with some of the new , dense powders , wouldn't be able to hit around 2100 to 2200 fps and make old Teddy's baby really adequate for big stuff.........??

[ 06-27-2002, 22:11: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

Sounds possible to me. Get one and try it. Would be the equivlaent of the 450/400 Nitro Express. Many of the lever gun bashers on this forum have stated that the 450/400 gives acceptable ballistics for DG.

It should work, if you can get 2100 out of it with a 400 gr. bullet, which I doubt...A 300 gr. 338 at 2300 or a 400 gr. 40 cal 2100 is a pretty good criteria minumum for dangerous game....

Keep in mind that you do not have an action with postive extraction and a hot load will stick and the extractor on a Mod. 95 will jump the rim...Same with most levers.

Believe me, I am a Lever action fan and I shoot a 25-35 for deer and a 30-30 in Winchester 94's. I had a 45-90 until recently and I have a Sav. 99 in 308 for a saddle gun and elk...I love them.

I have not been able to SAFELY meet my own DGR criteria with any lever action todate. When you guys put up something besides "town talk" and show me a lever that will do so on my terms then rest assured I will be hunting Buffalo with one and I will be proud as punch of you guys and gratefull to no end, I mean that....

Keep in mind the famous Bwana Cottar was killed by a Rhino that had two 405 bullets in his heart and lung area...just for information.

I gave Mark Pinkston of Kailua custom guns.com a P14 action and a fast twist .410 barrel blank. He put together a .405 and has been shooting it. His action is stronger, but drop him a note and see what he's getting for Velocities.
Cottar was trying to film a charge , so let the rhino get very close before he dropped the camera and fired. Would a big nitro caliber have saved him?? We'll never know.

Here we go again...

The 405 specializes in low sectional density and poor penetration. It's a very fine black bear rifle. No amount of wishing turns it into a buffalo caliber.

Dave Scovill used a 1895 in .405 on a brown bear hunt this past May. I was also a client and had a chance to meet him and share in some gun talk (I mostly listened). Dave was there to field test the gun and cartridge and plans on doing an article on the matter in Rifle Magazine later this year. He took a nice bear and indicated to me that the cartridge performed well. I don't recall the load data but he used a Barnes X. I am pretty sure he chronographed it at 2200 fps or better. Anyway I am sure all the details will be presented in his article.

By the way, here is the web address to his magazine. Look for the Jan 2002 issue, where you will find a write up on the gun.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/index.cfm?id=51

Atkinson

510 Kodiak Express chambered for a lever gun at 5400 ftlbs...a 400 gr. at 2445fps.

awtc,
that's a 50 cal at 400 gr.. low sectional density .275 vs 400 gr 416, .330....
it's built for bears, not buff.

I myself shoot a 458 ackley, 400 gr at 2200+.. would be a great cat gun, as the lighter bullets open up.. it MIGHT be a buff gun... but I wouldn't want it as a stopper. sd of .272 btw.

For those of you that missed the earlier lectures, SD is good, High SD is better. a "line" is .250 SD for north american game (deer and black bear).
400x416 .330
The 500 gr 458 has a sd of .341.
585x750 .313
and, for what it's worth
168 gr 308, sd of .253.
220 gr 308 is .331
so, the point is, a DGR should have a high SD (.30+), with high bullet weight(300+) and a large frontal area(judgement call.. .366+), with a moderate vel.. 2100+ and, at least, 4500 ft/lbs of energy... wait a minute.. that's just about exactly what Zim requires to hunt dangerous game.

jeffe

Jeff

That is why I have a 416. HeHe. Is not Brown Bear Dangerous? Joking aside you are right. Thanks for data for Rigby.

Sincerely

AWTC

Kanatak,
I don't doubt a 405, especially with a Barnes X bullet that performs will kill a bear, bear are soft compared to a Buffalo for one thing, and the monlithics add SD to lighter bullets to some extent..

I personally don't consider the low SD 405 a DGR rifle, but if some gun scribe or anyone else for that matter wants to shoot bear with one, then thats fine but it really proves nothing to me...

Bottom line is that it's a whole lot smarter to shoot big bear with a big bear gun unless you would rather use a .405 in which case be my guest, but why do all of you LAF's think you have to prove it on the internet, the place to prove any caliber is in the hunting fields, it makes a much better case there. I'm a dyed in the wool Lever action fan but just can't make the ones I have perform such miracles as claimed on these threads....