I've ordered a Montana Rifleman action. These are lefties and are rare or non-existant in the regular world. I ordered my action in an Ultra Mag configuration. This will finish out my collection as far as calibers. Already got a 300 Wby, 338 Win Mag, and 350 Rem Mag.

Not sure if I'll ever hunt dangerous game, but will make it to Africa in the next few.

Probably a Magnum junky as almost all rifles in the safe have a magnum moniker.

The caliber will be a 375 something. I really thought the Ultra would be the all time favorite. Gun will be scoped and probably braked with a threaded cap. Since making the order selection, I've been enamored by the 375 HH AI for some reason.

For some reason, I really strive for interchangeablitly in all of my stuff, whether it be sights, barrels or grips, etc.

What are the accuracy advatages of either?? Looking at the cases, I'd say the Ultra SHOULD be the most accurate. Should also be easy to load down a few grains for accuracy, reduced recoil and bullet performance.

Wonder how many times people on safari loose ammo, which would make the AI a great choice to fire regular H+H ammo easily. I also think a gain in 100 to 175 fps with an AI version is a good gain and worth it. A standard H+H is too plain for me and looking to take a small step up and exotic.

Weatherby is already kinda out as ammo and brass prices and availability are mail order only

Will take any suggestions

I have a 375 H&H and I would go with that choice again. The other 375's offer an advantage only if you are going to be shooting very long ranges. But even with the H&H, a 260 grain bullet is only 2 feet low at 400 yards, so effectively I have a 350 yard rifle, which is good enough. Personally I think that the disadvantages of the other 375's outweight the extra velocity available.

I support what 500 grains said. Plus I like old style cartridges with history, I have nothing against the newre chamberings bu there not for me. The .375 H&H is and has always been the best combination of power & recoil. There are more benifits to the standard H&H chambering than disadvantages. The taper of the .375 h&H case means feeding is excellent as well.

375 HH... ammo from alaska to zimbabwe... more than enough power, and will cleanly take anything on the planet

sounds like a great collection
jeffe

Weatherby is already kinda out as ammo and brass prices and availability are mail order only

Will take any suggestions[/QB][/QUOTE]

I am pretty sure 375HH ammo can be fired in the 375WBY also! Making brass cheap & easy
Good Luck ( I went with the Ackley )

Guys,

I was just wondering what all of the DISadvantages
of the .375Ultra and others are that everyone is talking about. I'm not trying to start anything, just honestly curious. As another poster in another thread stated, the extra velocity can be used for heavier than normal bullets at normal ranges. When you're talking expensive hunts, the cost of the extra powder in handloads you use in the larger case should be of no consideration. Today in Homer, AK., not exactly a Mecca of big game hunting, there were as many boxes of .375Ultra on the shelf as there were .375H&H at the local True Value Hardware. The .375 Weatherby, in a pinch, will fire the .375H&H and the others can be loaded down to H&H numbers to reduce the recoil if necessary. Just curious?

Joe

ovis,

I think the disadvantages of the 375 Ultra are lack of rifle availability, epsecially Model 70 and CZ.

The 375 H&H is at the upper recoil limit for most shooters if the gun is to be used quite a bit and from all positions etc.

The 375 H&H is so entrenched like no other calibre has managed to do.

I think the 375 Ultra would be much better to play about with than the 375 H&H because of extra loading flexibility. However if a 375 bore was purchased to be used only for very big game and especially if factory ammo was to be used, then it would be very hard to go past the 375 H&H because it will do the job, has all the nostalgia and class and is the most practical.

In other words the 375 Ultra would better for the "gun/calibre nut" and the 375 H&H would be better for the "hunting only" nut.

Mike

Mike375,

Thank you. Happy New Year, I hope things are going well for you down under.

Joe

Joe,

Happy new year to you too.

We are certainly not having any problems with snow

Mike

I sent my .375 H&H to have it rechambered to .375 Weatherby about three months before I found out Weatherby was bringing the cartridge "back".

Why did I want a .375 Weatherby? Because no-one else that I knew had one and I could fire .375 H&H in it. I wanted something different...but not too different.

As for all the velocity and recoil stuff. Weeell, I see that realistic (meaning pressure checked from a manual) the Weatherby is only a little faster than an H&H, the Ackley is the same as the Weatherby. So there isn't any "advantage" from one to the other except the W and A will push the bullet a little faster and you can also push the 350 grain bullets to 2450 or so.

The advantage I like is mine is different.

[ 01-03-2003, 15:27: Message edited by: Roger Rothschild ]

I also enjoy the many advantages of the Wby 375, it is all sumed up by a quote I read once somewhere: "You can cruise in a Ferarri at 80 KM's an hour, but a VW Beetle will never do 200"

I solved the problem by having both the H&H and Weatherby versions. If I were to own just one, I'd keep the Weatherby. It has no downside, you can fire H&H ammo in it, you can push the heavy bullets to a respectable velocity and factory ammo & brass are available, maybe not in every corner gunshop but it can be found.
I also must disagree with the statement about the extra velocity only being useful for long range shooting. If one is using a premium soft point I think the extra 200fps makes a bit more of an impression on large game, not a lot but enough that it can be detected. Regardless of which one you choose, buy the rifle you like most and let the caliber choice be secondary as they are all very good in the game fields.

It seems to me that anyone wanting another .375 than the HH have a need to "justify" their choice/passion etc. and that is really interesting. Personally I�m convinced that the .375 HH is the "best" choice among the .375�s. The "ultramag" run close to the .378 Weatherby when it comes to nasty (accuracy robbing) recoil and reduces magazine capacity compared to the HH. Two shooters I know of who use the .375 Weatherby say they will go for the HH when its time to replace their barrels, having used the HH previously and found no advantages with the Weatherby. An extra 100-150 fps does not make a difference worth the, reasonably speaking, sacrifice of having an oddball calibre. And if you want more power you should probably go for a bigger bullet, or so the common wisdome goes.

But I guess the point is you just want something different anyway. I�m like that when it comes to cars, I want something different than what everbody else has and difficulties like finding parts or a good mechanic for it is something I gladly live with (actually I have to repair the old Citr�en myself.. ).

I find it very hard to believe that the kind of case design you choose will make or brake your quest for accuracy, the quality of the barrel and the dimensions of your chamber/throat etc., even the action/stock/bedding is so much more important than case design that I doubt it is possible to verify if one of the .375�s in question are more inherently accurate than the other. If you worry about loosing ammo you can probably verify availability at your destination before you leave.

If you feel a need to justify your choice get a .375 HH. If not, get the one you really want, I take it you know that you don�t need a reason for it

Tron

My first venture in to see a gunsmith was to have Willis Fowler of Anchorage, Alaska to rechamber a 375 H&H Mark X barreled action (Whitworth) for me back in 1986.

This was my first non-factory rifle adventure, the 375 Weatherby. I bedded it in a Brown Precision fiberglass stock.

It killed running deer on Kodiak, and I packed this rifle as I ran after the escaping 13 foot King Kong of Kodiak ... he got away.

I may complete the circle and do a second 375 Weatherby in a Winchester M70 Classic Stainless.

I rank the 375 Weatherby right up there close to the 416 Rigby. It will do just fine for anything.

It is a very practical rifle in many ways.
The 375 Weatherby is to the .375's
as the 500 A-Square is to the 50 bores,
and as the 416 Rigby is to the .416's.

It is another kind of Ultimate cartridge of sorts, the 375 Weatherby.

Roger R. & DaggaRon,

The .375 Weatherby was also the caliber of "Big Nan", Alaska Master Guide#1 Hal Waugh's famous rifle. The Weatherby even has a bit of nostalgia, eh?

Joe

It seems we agree on this point Ron! Having both makes one use the one he likes the most, and for me that is the 375Wby. It's a shame that old Roy went off the deep end with his 378 and orphaned the old girl years ago. At least they finally came to their senses and brought it back!

Ovis-
It was also the choice of Lynn Castle, who bought Hal's Kodiak bear camp in later years.

[ 01-04-2003, 08:41: Message edited by: John S ]

"
It is a very practical rifle in many ways.
The 375 Weatherby is to the .375's
as the 500 A-Square is to the 50 bores,
and as the 416 Rigby is to the .416's."

Ahhhh, NO!

375 WBY is not a classic cartridge, avaliable all over the world, like the 375 H&H, and the 416 Rigby, and, it's not a round that has worked for nearly 100 years, as these two have. Likewise the A-square 500 is not a classic cartridge, or, for that matter, a Nitro express caliber, that likewise, has been doing it for a long time.

While the WBY is really uncharacteristic for a WBY cartridge, in that it appears to have the practical appeal of lets say, a 458 Lott, or Ackley, as the 458 is to the lott and ackley, none the less, the Lott and Ackley take a border line cartridge, and improve upon it, a Lott.

NO ONE will be able to make the argument that the 375 H&H or the 416 Rigby are inadequate cartridges for their choosen purpose. In fact, we have a discussion going, both sides presented by John S, that Saeed views the extra couple hundred feet a second as counter productive, while he thinks it whacks em a bit harder, in his experience. Both people I respect, and they both have different opinions on the benefits of slightly 'improved' 375 H&H/Wby ballistics.
Niether says the 375 is borderline, or 45/70ish(new term for borderline:-), for any job they use it for.

I just don't see enough difference to justify the WBY, but, the fact that you can fire 375 H&H ammo out of it is it's saving grace.

For the few instances where a 375 has too much arc, the 378, or the 375 rum, are the only cartridges that really flatten it out enough to consider.

For monster bear, or elk, I can see the 378 WBY.

The 375 is ok, since it shoots 375 H&H.

Of course one has to wonder, at what point do we give up hunting large animals, and just call it sniping? If you are going to take such shots, shouldn't you be using something like a Barrett 50, or the BMG necked down to 375, with a 400-500 grain spire, boattail, with fantastic sectional density, and blinding velocity?

Don't know if that's sporting, but I don't see a bright line here, dividing hunting and sniping for bear and elk...
DR S

Socrates-
What a lot of folks fail to realize about Saeed's 375/404 is that he uses Barnes X bullets in 300gr. If you've ever seen one of these you'll appreciate just how LONG this bullet is. If I remember correctly, he loads it to about 2600fps or so in his rifle. I doubt there is any way possible to get it moving that fast from a 375H&H due to a marked decrease in powder capacity. So, I guess what I'm saying is the Weatherby and the RUM allow H&H or better velocities with extremely large and/or overweight bullets, such as the 350gr Woodleigh. This is taking a borderline cartridge and improving it.
Myself and others see the velocity gain as a benefit and believe the effect on game is enhanced by the extra velocity. Others can use the same cartridge and to them it makes no difference compared to the standard one. It just depends on who you're talking to! Same with scopes and/or bullets. I don't like X bullets and fixed power, straight tubed scopes because they haven't performed very well for me under field conditions. Others love them and would use nothing else.

[ 01-04-2003, 18:10: Message edited by: John S ]

I will stand by my "Three Kings of Practicality."

We Three Kings:

375 Weatherby
Most practical .375, handles 375 H&H factory loads with useable ballistics, can get a 300 grain aerodynamic soft point bullet going 2700 fps easily in a 24" barrel, handloads can push 250 grainers to 3000 fps, or the 350 grainers to 2450 fps (easily), headstamped brass was available 50 years ago and newly made stuff is coming out now, etc., etc. ... Saeed and John S. both agree, the 375 Weatherby is the most practical way to the KISS Principle. Me too.

500 A-Square:
Brass and bullets, it has it all. 460 Weatherby brass, and .510" bullets of great variety, including cheap milsurp 50 BMG and exotic target bullets. Just engrave the rifle ".510/460 Weatherby IMProved." (510 WIMP for short.)

416 Rigby:
Never a constraint, all things possible, most practical because most unfettered by pressure or case capacity or bullet or brass availability. Best balance between power, portability, and comfort in all ways. Best case design of all time. No limitations. Most practical.

Ovis,
Yep, Big Nan the 375 Weatherby of Hal Waugh influenced me in my cheechako days.

Even after becoming a sourdough, I saw the beauty of the 375 Weatherby.

Now having played with the 375-338, 375 H&H, 375 Weatherby, 375 RUM, and 378 Weatherby, I see the 375 Weatherby as the most versatile and practical of all the .375's.

With the long monometal bullets and hot weather, the 375 RUM or 375/404 may have an advantage of lower pressures for a given performance level, whether slow heavy bullets or fast heavy bullets.

But all in all, the 375 Weatherby is the versatile-practical one.

Gentlemen

I wonder why no commercial maker has't made a line of cartridges on a full lenght 404, like Saeed's 375-404?

/ JOHAN

JOHAN

But they have and they are called the 7mm, 300, 338 and 375 Remington Ultra Mags

Mike

Johan-
Remington used the H&H head size to get around making a different bolt face dimension. With the H&H size they simplified their manufacturing and kept costs down. The difference between the two is so small it can hardly be called a rebated rim anyway. I believe there are a few slight differences in the diameter but the 404 is definitely the parent case for the series.

[ 01-05-2003, 18:54: Message edited by: John S ]

Yes and before that there were the Imperial Magnums, based on full length improved 404 cases, no rebated rim. - Dan

"Socrates-
What a lot of folks fail to realize about Saeed's 375/404 is that he uses Barnes X bullets in 300gr. If you've ever seen one of these you'll appreciate just how LONG this bullet is. If I remember correctly, he loads it to about 2600fps or so in his rifle. I doubt there is any way possible to get it moving that fast from a 375H&H due to a marked decrease in powder capacity. So, I guess what I'm saying is the Weatherby and the RUM allow H&H or better velocities with extremely large and/or overweight bullets, such as the 350gr Woodleigh. This is taking a borderline cartridge and improving it.
Myself and others see the velocity gain as a benefit and believe the effect on game is enhanced by the extra velocity. Others can use the same cartridge and to them it makes no difference compared to the standard one. It just depends on who you're talking to! Same with scopes and/or bullets. I don't like X bullets and fixed power, straight tubed scopes because they haven't performed very well for me under field conditions. Others love them and would use nothing else."

John: You know Saeed, and what he uses, a bit better then I.

His point to me was the 375 H&H was sufficent for most anything, and, if you whacked it once, and it didn't go down, you are going to need all the shots you can get in the mag, hence the 375 with 7 +1.
I firmly believe in what he has mentioned prior:
Whack the buffalo with everything you can fire accurately, since he isn't going down, unless you hit him just right, and, if you don't, the adrenilin is going to kill him, but, he may kill you in the meantime.

In otherwords, first shot placement, is the key, and, shoot the most you can, and hit your target, in the right place.

After following his advice, I have no doubt that a 270 grain softpoint, at 2800 fps(Federal factory load, with 25" barrel, out of a CZ) is going to really whack whatever it hits, and probably drop it.

Do you really need more? How about a slightly lighter Barnes X, at higher velocity, for 375?

In other words, do you really need a Barnes X, 300 grains, 375 , at 2600fps?
If you think you do, then why not use a wider bullet, at the same, or heavier weight, like a 458 Lott, using the same case, to make sure whatever you hit goes down?

Saeed reminds me of K Bell. Hit exactly the right spot, and you can use a 223 and a buffalo will go down...

DR S