Im not sure which one to choose. I have read that a savage 212 is not as strong as 210. I want a real stomper. How much would each setup cost? It doesn't have to be a fancy rifle. It will never go to Africa and hunt. It will be a fun gun to shoot with friends just for the hell of it.
I have been reloading a lot of different small caliber cases for over 20 years but never a big bore.

I have read to get the most out of either caliber I need to
have a 30 inch barrel. In a .585HE with a 30inch barrel
would be able to reach 3000fps with a 750gr bullet?
Producing close to 15,000 ft/lbs of energy. Would the brass last
5 or 6 shots at that kind of speed? Would the MRC PH action handle that kind of pressure loads with ease?

I would rather be shot with the 12GFH than shoot it, I'd die quicker.

If you are thinking of 12GaFH,
the chamber dimensions and brass dimensions are very different when comparing Rob's brass,
straightened out 50 BMG with screwed on rim,
versus the RMC which is true SAAMI 12 Ga brass spec and chamber spec.

I tried firing Rob's brass in my SAAMI-head-sized 12GaFH 3.85".
I had that reamer made by Dave Kiff at PT&G.
It fits the RMC 12Ga 3.85" and 3.5" brass perfectly.
My shotguns make a mess of Rob's 50 BMG based brass.
The RMC Brass and chamber are greater in OD.
The RMC turned brass may not be as strong as Rob's extrusion-formed-basis brass for the 12GaFH,
but it is strong enough for more fun than I want to have.
I.e. , my "Beer Keg" 1400-grain cast lead slug (Brooks Mould) at 1800 fps: Too much fun.

The chamber for RMC brass fits SAAMI 12Ga shells perfectly.
Rob's does not.
Just thought you should be aware of that.
I prefer the RMC brass, of course.

Rip
.

What kind of loads could a savage 212 with a pacnor 3.5inch rifled 12 gauge 26inch barrel
using RMC 3.5inch brass take? Or could the savage handle 3.85 inch brass out of the box?
How would you reload the brass cases? Use a RCBS Cowboy 12 Gauge Brass Shot Shell Die Set
in a rock chucker press?

My brass held up to 3100fps with a 1000 gr bullet! You have to decide what type of brass you want to use. My cases made from .50bmg brass last over 6 reloads. The issue is resizing them. I make hand dies for that purpose.

Rob and ed I have spent a lot hours reading posts about your work on big bores.
Thanks for that. It's things that I would had like to do but could not afford to do at the time. I didnt think the savage 212 could handle the pressures your bmg brass could handle. I thought that rmc brass is all that the savage 212 could handle.
I would like to have 2 different loads. Load 1# a big hardcast 1400gr+ trashcan like bullet at 1600-1800fps. (like the 500gr+hardcast wide meplat 45-70 loads but supersized).
2# A solid with a sectional density of .330+ driven at 23-2400fps. This load may be above the pressure a savage 212 can handle. I think this load should penetrate a big stump of a oak tree very well. This load may not be realistic to achieve without extensive work to the savage 212.

Ed:

Just question for .585:

If "hunting load" with good brass life is 2700 fps out of 30" tube, what velocity you can get out of "real world length" hunting rifle (~25" barrel)? 200 fps less?

What about RL-17 powder and brass life? Can you recommend it or is it better to use slower powders?

Jiri

Like some of you on this thread, I read Ed's stuff for weeks until I couldn't stand it anymore. Finially, I just had to build a "24 ga. From Hell."

Ed did most of the heavy lifting and I followed his advice on powders and bullets. I ended up with a nifty single shot .577Nitro Express (24 ga. From Hell) that hurles a 700 grain bullet at 2000fps.

That's about twice the killing power, twice the powder charge, twice the recoil energy and twice the fun of a .458 Win Mag! I have two seasoned PH's and three dead cape buffalo that say it works.

You can see the rifle on Ed's thread and read the story of the hunt in the 2017 summer edition of The African Hunting Gazette."Never Mind The Bull". Or watch the YouTube video, "Brian hunts cape buffalo" (Sorry for the plug.)

Notes on the rifle:
1. Ed will recomend slow burning powders with a "friendly pressure curve" like VV N550. These powders like longer barrels and the long heavy barrels help a lot with the recoil. I went for a 26.5 inch bull barrel.

2, For the recoil, bed epoxy/lead shot or a brass rod in the forend. I made a buttstock that is very straight so that there is less muzzle rise during recoil.(Don't tell the troops but you can master recoil at a mental level and by holding the rifle right. When I am wound up and close to a buffalo, my 13 lb .577NE shoots like a .375 WM. I'm 71 years old.)

3. A 700 grain bullet is more than you need for cape buffalo. A 650 grain solid .585 bullet at 1800fps is still way more killing power than the load that made the .458 WM famous.

4. I made my own cast bullets because I wanted to go "old school". But, If you really want to impress the girls and kill buffalo with one shot, try Cutting Edge Bullets 600 gr. Raptors at 2100 fps and 650 gr. Solids at 2000fps.

With buffalo, get close and like Clint said, "go for the heart, Ramone."

this aint a 243 people --

in big bores, you don't lose much per inch -- wells, pedersen, and smith have said it and proved it for decades -- danny pedersen told me, of 15-20 years ago, that a 510 wells MIGHT lose 10fps for barrels under 20", that an 18 is just fine, and a 23 is too long, as you get no real world gains from it.

jeffeosso, That's interesting, and maybe true.
My next barrel for my 50-110 big bore singleshot will be 22 inches. I was told by someone who knows (like you) that 20 inches would be plenty.

I also think that in a big bore like we are considering, anything over 2300fps is unnessary.
I am going for 2000fps for cape buffalo.

Brian,
it will perform great -- i've got a 20: 45-120 nitro

i forgot to mention these magic words
expansion ratio -- i think PO used to call this bore capacity or something like that

jeffeosso, Thanks for your encouraging comment.

Will a montana PH action handle top loads any cartridge short of a bmg or
700 nitro express?

quote:

Originally posted by RLD:
Will a montana PH action handle top loads any cartridge short of a bmg or
700 nitro express?

Funny you ask -- the 700 DA was EXPLICITLY designed to fit this action -- i believe ed has appropriated the design into the 700 Hubel kurtz or something