Shot some groups with the 416 Rem Mag.

The average of all groups fired for record was 1.027.

The average of all NorthFork groups was .873, best was .562, worst was 1.173. These groups were fired from a cleaned barrel, followed by a single Speer 350 fouling shot. The light copper from the Speer was the only copper apparent at the muzzle.

IMR4895 76gr, 370 gr.Cup Point Solids, 2542 fps
IMR4895 78gr, 370 gr.Cup Point Solids, 2598 fps
IMR4895 76gr, 370 gr. Soft Point, 2550 fps
IMR4895 78gr, 370 gr. Soft Point, 2608 fps

No pressure signs, and primer pockets are still tight. Used Fed GM210M primers for the NF loads. My truck idled for 3 hours with the heater on max, keeping the NF rounds at a temp too hot to comfortably hold, so I think the 78gr/2600 fps load will get the nod for TZ.

Softs and solids are within an inch for each load.

Fired a group formed from my fouling shots, one after each cleaning session. I took the scope on and off before each fouling shot to test return to zero under cold, oily barrel conditions. (Someone had asked about return-to-zero on my Leupold QRW rings.) That group was 1.570. Those loads were 350 gr Speer, 78.5 gr surplus IMR4895, WLR primers, average velocity was 2630 fps. The Speers copper fouled lightly. gThis group is only about .4 inches bigger than the average group size for the Speer practice load, so I don't think removing/replacing the scope has a measurable effect.

This is the M70 Super Express with the CutRifled barrel by Dan Pedersen. I can't say enough good things about his work.

I've been back to the range twice since the first post. I am shooting the cheaper 350 gr Speers from 375 H&H brass as practice rounds.

Last week I tried the iron sights and found I needed a shorter front sight even with a blank (no VEE) on the fixed rear blade. After some figgerin' I ordered the .177 (shortest NECG Masterpiece) front sight. I tried it today, and with the blank rear I am just 3 inches high at 50 yards. This means I only get .030 for the depth of the VEE - shallow indeed!

I've mostly been shooting offhand and off the sticks. 50 rounds per week. My offhand is nothing to brag about - I keep them all on a 9" paper plate at 50 yards. I don't seem to do any worse on rapid fire than slow fire - they all (barely) stay on the plate.

Last week I cut my forehead with the scope when learning to shoot off the sticks. I tried resting my left hand in the fork holding the rifle this week and it worked much better. No cuts or bruises and I got an 8 shot group of 2.23" at 50 yards off the sticks. My second 8 shot group with the sticks was double that. I think I was starting to flinch.

I am having trouble with feeding when cycling the action for rapid fire under recoil. The left-hand (second) cartridge in the magazine pops out about half the time.

It works fine when practicing rapid fire with dummy rounds in my living room, so I reckon it's just on the hairy edge of working. Any tips on adjusting the feeding will be appreciated.

So, 2.2" at 50 yards. Say a 3moa gun at 100 yards.

Its not alot of room inside 250-300 yards.

Nortman,

The rifle off the bags shoots 1 MOA.

The 8 shot 2.23" group at 50 yards was off the shooting sticks - blame it on me, not the rifle!

I's say I'm holding "minute of buffalo" out to about 150 yards off the sticks, 50 yards offhand.

Don in you first post there you have some terrific groups. In a big gun like the 416 you should really be smiling. Which one of the loads delivered the .562 group?

You should get better with the big gun after shooting it a bit more.

Good stuff Don. You have been much more diligent with your practice than I. I am hoping Bill Leeper will phone soon, as I am itchin to get out with the Taylor.

Cheers,
Canuck

Don,

Do you have an impression of whether cut rifling or button rifling produces more accurate rifles? Less fouling?

Jay, the best group was from the NorthFork Cup Point Solids. I cannot tell the difference between the groups in size and position between the CPS and Flat Point Solids. The NF softs print about 1/2" higher at 100 yards than the solids. The best group from the softs was less than .7 inches at 100, and they averaged under an inch, so again I think any apparent difference is me rather than the bullets.

I think that even off the bags I am probably measuring my (lack of) skill and the 6 power (max) scope rather than the NF bullets or the rifle's true capability.

With the Speers I think I am measuring the bullet's capablity rather than the rifle's. They average right at 1.2" for three shots at 100 yards.

What is impressive to me is that off the bags I get no bad fliers with any of these bullets. The worst groups are very close to the best off the bags for all these bullets.

500,
I think that barrels from the best manufacturers using any of the techniques are about the same as to ultimate accuracy with their favorite bullet.

I do have the impression that the cutrifle barrels (I own Krieger and Pedersen barrels) are less particular about bullet construction and powder types than the button-rifled barrels. For that reason I favor the cutrifled barrels in DGR calibers where I want to shoot multiple bullet types to the same POI by varying the powder load.

I am an engineer, so I have to say that I don't know whether this cutrifle barrel is the sole reason the whole rifle works so well, but I do know the rifle works. To say I am tickled is an understatement. At first I thought this rifle was snakebit. I had three factory barrels on it, and could never even get the POI up to the target using the factory iron sights. The POI with two of those factory barrels walked several inches at 100 yards as they warmed up! One of those factory barrels did shoot some good groups after it was hot, if I evenly spaced the shots to keep a constant temperature. The factory barrels were visibly bent (using a shadow line in the bore) where the factory soldered on the barrel lug and band.

This rifle is steel bedded out to an inch in front of the integral barrel lug, as were the factory barrels. I did not ask Dan if he finished cutting the bore and rifling after he milled in the integral lug and quarter rib and soldered on the band and front sight (as an engineer that's what I would do), but from the absolute lack of change in POI with heat I know that whatever he did worked!

I have some Walther barrels for my Mauser actions that I will use some day - they are forged and have a very good reputation.

As to fouling, I think every barrel is a law unto itself. No manufacturer will guarantee a barrel not to foul. Of the barrels I have had a Shilen, Krieger and Pedersen were the best not to foul. I have not owned a Hart, Pac-Nor or Lilja, though, and they all have good reputations.

This Pedersen barrel does not foul with the NF bullets, but does to some extent with the Speer 350s. I shot 50 rounds of the Speer 350s without cleaning yesterday, and Wipeout got all the copper out overnight except for the last 1/4" at the muzzle where it drained off too soon. I have it standing muzzle down, now.

Canuck , you need to get busy!

Cut-rifling induce less stress on barrel steel. Cut-rifling is generally used by custom barrel makers that aim to produce best possible barrels as opposed to mass produced factory barrels. It also requires more skill than to push or pull a button through a drilled hole. Precision cuts, and the subsequent lapping, produces very fine and smooth surfaces.
Those barrels that are not lapped typically need to be ‘broken-in’, by firing and cleaning to smoothen the surfaces to lessen fouling. (From 50 to 200 rounds)

Accuracy of a barrel is not only dependant on the method (button, cut-rifling or hammer-forged), but by controlling all the variables in both the quality and consistency of the material and the manufacturing process. That is why some companies grade their barrels based on a spec sheet, listing all key variables, like Shilen does (many others do not). Please note that Shilen is using the button process.

Sadly, no manufacturer in SA uses the cut-rifling method and hence gunsmiths need to import from Krieger for their clientele. Krieger barrels are definitely superior to what is locally made, and in my opinion not an item to be saved on when one goes the custom route.

Everbody that I know is very happy with the Kriegers they got.

Chris

quote:

I shot 50 rounds of the Speer 350s .

Thanks for the info Don and it doesn't sound like that .416 is intimidating you.

Jay,

I've probably shot over 2000 rounds of 416 since I got this rifle back around 2000 (only have 130 on this barrel so far), so it's not intimidating.

I do think that 50 is maybe 10 too many for one day -- I tend to get a bit punch-drunk. Not enough to notice at the time, but I begin to wonder later. My offhand and shooting stick group sizes are definitely bigger over the last 20 rounds, going by the last two sessions.