1. Why is the big bore forum so much busier than the little bore forum.

2. Why would anyone want a belted magnum cartridge?

1. Because in the little-bore forum, you're testing the gun; in the big-bore forum, you're testing youself!

2. To get performance that was (until recently) unavailable in smaller, unbelted cartridges.

George

ANSWER #1: A .458 Win Mag will kill a ground hog.......a .22-250 won't kill an elephant.

ANSWER #2: Try chambering a barrel in 458 Lott or 470 Capstick without the belt and you'll soon appreciate that little band of brass.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

It's busier because this is the site to visit if youre into big bores. They are just too cool. As far as belts... who cares if they have a belt. Nobody ever had a problem with the idea until the Ultra Mags came out and the big companies said they were a bad thing. How many people do you hear bitch about the 30-30 because it has a rim?

1:Because anyone can shoot a small bore

2: what's the difference if the rim is on the bottom or side? It's just a method to headspace.

3: belt? what belt is on my 376 steyr, 500 jeffe, 416 rigby, etc etc etc?

jeffe

>Nobody ever had a problem with the idea until the Ultra Mags came out and the big companies said they were a bad thing.<

Not true. Quite a few people including me, had a prblem with the belt except for straight cartridges. On a bottleneck cartridge, the belt is just in the way. It is a poor way to headspace a cartridge.

I agree that a belt is redundant and not needed on a bottleneck cartridge.

Owning big bores is to the gun owner as big block V8's is to the car enthusiest. Plus I like having to take panadol after a dozen rounds out of my big bores

t_bob38,

For the majority of small bores, the calibre is only a means to an end.

For the majority of big bore owners, the calibre is the issue.

The small bore equivalent of the big bore would be things like 30/378 or 7mm Ultra or 300 Ultra necked to 25 etc.

Mike

The big bore forum is busy because many of us are friends here and have alot of fun with our cannons. Many of us also have African hunting experience as thats what we are building these rifles for(for the most part).
A belt on a case provides a very reliable method of headspacing. Some bottlenecked Cases with marginal shoulders probably could not be commercialized as their headspacing would not be reliable enough. The 400 Brown/whelen or 585 NYATI is probably a good example of this.
There would be no 458 win mag or Lott/watt or 450 Ackley without a belt! In fact the 450 Ackley has a very miniscule shoulder and it probably would be totally unreliable without a belt.-Rob

I agree with PC! I always say,if you dont't come home from the range with a sore neck and throbbing headache you simply did not have any fun! A big bore is also a great attitude adjuster.

An understandable question!

T_bob38, the reason the BIG BORE forum is visited so much is, because it is a companion to the AFRICAN HUNTING forum, and most hunting in Africa requires Big Bores! If you will notice almost every poster here is also a regular poster on AFRICAN HUNTING as well. I, personally, seldom post on anything to do with less than Medium bore, though I own, and regularly use rifles, and pistols of small bore, they are, for the most part all brothers, and there is little difference in any of the small bore chamberings, outside VERY high speed,for the EGO, and average speed things for deer, and other hunting. None of them hold any mistery, since every one of them has been wirtten to death over the last 100 years, and what may seem new, to you, is nothing but a rehash of something that was done 50 yrs ago, by some wildcatter. The HOT ROCK things that are toughted as BREAK THROUGH cartridges of today, are nothing without the rag writers to push them to the young, as the latest thing one MUST own!

The big bores, on the other hand, are not changed except to find a sutible powder to replace the old CORDITE powders to make them usable today. Their effectiveness is not an issue, as they have done their jobs well for over a century. Most rarely develope more than 2500 fps, and one load that works is all that is needed, with the only difference for any one of them is the choice of soft, or solid, and only one weight is used for a particular cartridge, as a rule. Their numbers do not empress the young of today, simply because they do not know the velocities of today, for the most part, only waste powder, and develope recoil to sooth the ego of the unschooled! If it's loud, and kicks a lot, and the numbers in the load book are high, it must be better! RIGHT!

The belt on most of the cartridges made today, were simply added to rimmed chamberings that were made for singleshots, and double rifles, and wouldn't cycle reliably through a bolt action rifle. Headspaceing was always done on the rim, in early times, so the rim was simply thickened, and had a groove cut in it for the extractor of a bolt rifle, and headspace ahead of the extractor. Since most cartridges were either very tapered, or almost straight, headspaceing needed to be at the back of the case. Certainly the straight cases, which were low pressured cartridges, could not be headspaced on a shoulder, but extracted reliably with a rim. The "Belt" was, and is, not really a belt, but the front side of a very thick rim, and only looks like a belt because of the extractor groove cut in it's edge! The long taper of the case was to ficilitate feeding, and extraction, because these were very high pressure rounds of the day, and if straighter, would fail to feed or extract. The things that made the so-called "belted" cartridges desirable, is valid today as well, no matter what Remington, and beanfield shooters tell you. The feed like quicksilver, and exreact very easily. Both are conditions that are desireable in a cartridge/rifle combination that is often used to take animals that have a tendency to bite back, and require a BIG BORE to stop, if he gets agressive! Like anything else, if the belted cartridge is not loaded properly it will give problems, but one thing for sure you are not goint set the headspaceing back by loading, as can be done easily on a cartridge that headspaces on the shoulder!