I've got it bad now. I'm borrowing a rifle for my first safari this August. But, after shooting the borrowed 416 Rigby and realizing the recoil is not a problem, I've become intrigued with the idea of buying my own, but in a double rifle. I'd appreciate advise on makes that might be affordable, yet have a classy look like a Monte Carlo cheek piece and a schnoble forarm. Used is good.

I'm new enough in the subject of big bores, that i know snothing about 9.whatevers and 470's. all advise appreciated.

You got to pay to play, Any double is going to cost you as much as a good plains game hunt, and your still sitting at home! While lovely to look at and even better to handle a double is a limited use gun. Your talking open sights only (for practical purposes). The rigby is a great cartridge but uncommon in a double as it is rimmless and presents some challenges to the gunmaker to work just right, the Nitro Express cartridges are better for the design of a double gun. While its nice to dream, I do too, if you are borrowing a gun this time you may be better off served with a good medium bore bolt gun with a low range variable scope for now, the double is kind of like owning a 1 iron, few have it or truly have a use for it!

SBT The only 416Rigby double rifle I know of is made by Chapuis. check out www.chadicks-ltd.com .They start at $10,500. I have a 9.3x74R Chapuis that I like very well. I have shot a 470 Chapuis, and it shot good. Most if not all people who are familar with double rifles will recommend that you do not get one for rimless cases. Some of the German doubles are made in the 500/416, which gives almost identical ballistics to the 416 Rigby. Another solution, and one I recommend, is to buy an original British double rifle in 450/400 3" or 450/400 3 1/4". these cartridges have similar ballistics,a400gr. 40cal.[.408 to.411] bullet at @2150fps. Check out www.champlinarms.com and www.westleyrichards.com. They usually have some 400 nitro's in stock. I have a 450/400 3 1/4 and like it very much [almost as much as my 450 N02 ] You should be able to find a good one for 8 to 10 thousand dollars. It will be the best money you ever spend on a rifle. It mighe even save you money in the long run as with a good double rifle you do not want other rifles.....EXCEPT other doubles.

Never get a rimless cartridge double rifle. Merkel makes a 416 Rigby also, put it is just a marketing stunt by all the makers that put them out, as a fool and his money are soon parted. Krieghoff used to make one also, before they got ethical and brought out their new 500/416 NE.

450/400, 450, 470, even 9.3X74 would all be better choices. No belted or rimless cartridges in a double: THINK RIMMED.

Thanks all for the education. When you are referring to a 500/416 NE, 450 NO2 or a 450/400, what does that mean? Also, what do the numbers 9.3x74 stand for?

If you are looking for an economy double in 416 then you should be able to find a field grade Kreighoff in 500/416 for right at or under 8K.

I would only echo the opines of the above posters about the 416 Rigby. It doesn't belong in a double rifle. The whole premises of the double rifle is a large caliber bullet delivered at low pressure and ease of extraction. Flanged cartridges need only apply!

The 500/416 is going to be the chambering of choice as soon as people realize what a great round it is, unless enough people start ordering Butch Searcy's new 450/400 3 inch doubles with their .408 or .411 barrels. You can get his field grade rifle for around 7k in 450/400 3 inch.
I can't remember what his 500/416 ran, but were in the ball park.

I own a 450/400 3 inch. It satisfies my need for a good penetrating .408 bullet on heavy game and the recoil doesn't beat you to death. The 450/400 is a great all around chambering, if there is such a thing. My idea of hunting with a double rifle is to hunt as much as I can with the double. The 450/400 fulfills that for me quite nicely.

The 500/416 comes very close to all my requirements, save the recoil. Although it isn't as much as a 470 it is a bit stiffer than my 450/400. If you are looking for a double in .416 then the 500/416 is the way to go. It's your money get what you want, this is just my opine!

Rusty
We band of brothers!

SBT,
Ditto Rusty.
The 9.3X74 is a European/metric designation for a cartridge firing a 9.3mm (0.366" caliber) bullet from a case that is 74mm long (2.91"). It is a flanged/rimmed cartridge that should be legal for dangerous game in most places, and is the minimum double rifle cartridge that makes any sense to me.

You can go to

www.hallowellco.com

and find their glossary of double rifle terminology for some interesting reading: click on "Abbreviations, Definitions & Opinions."

Where is the best site for some cartridge pictures, if one doesn't have a copy of _Cartridges of the World_ handy?

"Sum buddy who know?"

[ 07-21-2002, 20:10: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

SBT,

First get a copy of John (Pondoro) Taylor's book African Rifles and Cartridges. Second read his description of the .450-.400.

Third, get Butch Search to build you your double rifle in the 3" version of the cartridge.

Forty is enough gun.

jim dodd

Very good advise here. Do your research, then go somewhere and shoot and handle some doubles. Get one that "fits" you the best. It will be the best money you will spend. The 450/400 [3" or 3 1/4"] is the best calibre for your first double, Even If you get 10 other doubles it is still one of the best calibres around. You can never go wrong with a 450/400 Nitro.

SBT, hopeing you are not one of ToddE's alter- egos, you came to the right place!


I'm sure this must sound like a broken record to you, but ask,for an opinion on rifles, and ye shale recieve! The verdict is in, and it is, for double rifles, only flanged cartridges are suited!

The 450/400 3" would be my reccomendation, over the 450/400 3.25" simply because you will probably be buying a used rifle in this chambering, and the 3" version was never offered, in a black powder version, but MOST 3.25" rifles were black powder, and for a beginer this can get you into trouble. The 3" version is easier to find ammo for anyway.

Also, I will echo what everyone has said about the 500/416K! It is the balistic twin to the Rigby,at lower pressures, and much better suited to double rifle use!

I would say, at this point, if you don't understand double rifles completely,and if you want a 416 Rigby, then I would go with a CZ 550 chambered for 416 Rigby, and mount a Luepold Veri-X II 1.3-5x20 scope, and go to Africa. Additionally I would take a good Control feed 30-06 along for plains game. A S/S double rifle isn't something to take lightly, untill you learn a little more about their care and feeding!

SBT,

Here is a link that shows different cartridges:

http://www.westleyrichards.com/ammo.asp?Type=Rifle

Regards,

Terry

I also hunt and shoot with a 450-400-3" and it is all I need or want...If I every buy another it will be a 416/500 as that is about ideal IMO....

I would never own a double that didn't have a rim, simply because I have seen the extractors and/or ejectors over-ride the rimless case and put the gun totally out of commision...

Any high intensity round like the 375 H&H, 416 Rigby, 458 Win., tends to shoot off the face in a short time, that was always the problem with the old 30 Super (300 H&H) in double rifles and will be the bain of Merkel and chapius...there only salvation being most folks never shoot their double more than 100 times...

I knew a guy who got kreigdoff overunder in 416 rem mag we shot it a bit. After about 200 rds the frame cracked and broke on it. Doubles are not made to take high pressure rds.

The posted websites were a big help in learning about double rifles. The definitions and abreviations site was especially helpful. Thanks.

SBT I was at Chadicks today. They had several 470 Chapuis and a few 9.3x74R Chapuis.