I've got an opportunity to trade into a Holland and Holland 500 3 1/4 BPE. The gun is in super original condition, with near mint bores. It's a Jones underlever, with rebounding hammers, 1 fixed and a couple of folders. As I recall, and may not recall correctly, the 500 BPE shoots a 430 grain bullet at about 1700 fps, is this correct? I assume that the gun will have some load information on it, and I'll have a couple of days to make up my mind on this. The gun will be here on 5-15-03. Questions I have revolve around bullet parculiarities, nitro loads, etc. I'm not one for going into the intricacies of paper patched bullets, and am wondering about using Hawk bullets, which have the softer jackets? Trajectory? Other bullets? Loads?
Any help with information, etc would be appreciated.

I found 2 loads [original] for the 500 3 1/4 Black Powder Express. both with 142 gr. of black powder, #1 with a 440gr lead cooper tube bullet, #2 with a 480gr. lead solid.
You can use a nitro for black recipe consisting of a 440gr. bullet with 56 grains of H4198 compressing the powder with @ 20grains of dacron. Vel @1850 Pressure for these loads tested lower than the original black powder loads.
Also 72 gr. of Varget with filler. vel 1850
These loads are from a book you must get.
"Shooting the British Double Rifle" by Graeme Wright. Avialable from www.huntingtons.com
They probably have dies cases, etc.
I have had excellent results [on game also] shooting Hawk bullets in my NITRO doubles. At 500BPE velocities for deer and pigs I would use tge .025jkt. If I was going to hunt elk or up I would probably use the .030 or .035jkt.

I have used an IMR 4198 Nitro for black load for my 450 No2 with 300 and 400gr jacketed loads and 400gr lead bullets. 52 gr of IMR4198 with a RP300gr.HP gave 1878fps. a 400gr. cast [linotype] bullet with 50gr. gave 1822fps.

The formula from Ross Seyfried is an amount of IMR4198 or H4198 that is 40 to 45 percent of the charge of black powder. You must compress the powder against the primer with dacron. I would start with the 40 percent loads with the Hawk bullets. www.hawkbullets.com
Good luck

[ 05-15-2003, 03:34: Message edited by: N E 450 No2 ]

Thanks for the info-

I will see the gun for the first time this evening, and will make a decision from there. I'd be trading off a very nice B. Rizzini 20 ga o/u and some cash, so we will see how this goes.

'preciate the info-

Beware, it's a slippery slope! Here, let me give you a shove...

There was an excellent article by Sherman Bell in the most recent Double Gun Journal that included working up loads for a .500 3" BPE using the above mentioned 4198 ratios. My only experience is with the 3" version, but it would actually regulate with Swiss 1-1/2 Fg and 340 grain cast bullets, or with 440 grain Woodleighs and appropriate 4198 loads. Recoil with the 440s was, erm, strenuous, but the BP loads were a hoot! Betcha can't stop with just one!

Do you use 40% 4198 by weight of the volume charge of Black?

"The formula from Ross Seyfried is an amount of IMR4198 or H4198 that is 40 to 45 percent of the charge of black powder. You must compress the powder against the primer with dacron."

qw1437
I have no experience shooting black powder, and very,very little shooting lead bullets in rifles...But I do know that it can be very hard to find the right combination for good accuracy, especially on short notice. I would test the rifle with the Nitro for Black loads and the Hawk or the Woodleigh 440gr. bullets. If it shoots those good you should be able to find a good combo of black powder and lead.

I found a Nitro for Black Powder for the 500 Nitro Express [I think the same load was used for 3" and 3 1/4"] of 55gr of Cordite with a 440gr. metal based, or a 440gr. solid/copper tube bullet.
Velocity1900fps.
Let us know how the rifle looks.

Lar45
Yes you take the weight of black powder, in the case of the 500BPE, 142 grains times .40 [40%] which is 56.8 grains of IMR4198. Some rifles may shoot better with H4198. This amount of powder only occupies a small portion of the case, thus to prevent hang-fires you must compress the powder against the primer for consistant ignition.
The secret is to use enough dacron ]polyester pillow stuffing] to be compressed against the powder by the bullet, that way recoil and handling will not alter the relationship between powder and primer from round to round. In a 500 I would guess that it would take @20 grains of poly, I used 15grains in my 450 No2 for some Nitro for Black loads to plink with. They work real good.
You could use the same technique on any large bore big cased cartridge for a consistent low recoil lesser big game/plinking round.
You must compress the dacron, using only a small tuft has caused ringed chambers in some rifles.