This entire debate about the suitability of lever action rifles for dangerous game hunting has intrigued me. The biggest argument against the lever action seems leveled at the lack of power of the ammunition these rifles are chambered in. A perfect example is 500grain's statements that in order for a lever action to be a DGR it would need to be chambered in 500 NE, 577 NE, 470 NE, or some other rimmed nitro express cartridge.

Well, Dan's comment intrigued me too. So I got to thinking about the possibility of building a lever action that will feed, chamber, and safely fire the 577 NE. Now I want this to be a 'traditional' style lever action, so no rotating bolt heads aka Browning BLR. I also want to feed from a box magazine, not a tube. So I figure the good ol' M1895 Winchester scaled up about 55% should do just the trick! I will begin a feasibility study to determine if:
a.) It would be strong enough.
b.) I can machine the darned thing.

I welcome any comments about this exciting project.

Scott

HI,

I really like what I am hearing, if this comes out I would really like one alot,Kev

I think those .577 sniders will be a lot of fun, but I would not expect deep penetration from a bullet with a sectional density of .27 going 1200 fps. It's a bit like hunting with a muzzle loader - lots of fun, but there are limitations that must be accepted.



You may have solved Scott's action design problem however. He could buy two 1887 lever shotguns, and use a cutout from the center of one to lengthen the other. Then the .577 nitro may be accomodated.



In such a rifle, it would be important to retain the original curved metal buttplate for historical accuracy. And it would also be important to travel to the safari area by sailing ship, ride in a sedan chair and catch malaria.

Chuckwagon,
I generally agree with you.

Kev,

I don't know about the reliability thing. I have had issues with CRF rifles, probably more than I have had with push feeds. Heck, I have one push feed that has never once failed to feed after somewhere around 3000 rounds fired (and I typically put a few hundred rounds through it at a time as it is a b_tch to clean). Another push feed that has only had two misfeeds, and it feeds from top to bottom (like a mauser being fired upside down). That rifle has fired a few thousand rounds too! When it misfeeds it likes to bend the cartridges to they look kinda like boomarangs.

Anyway, the idea, and that is what it is right now, is to manufacture a unique action based upon the Winchester M1895. This action will be 55% +/- bigger than a M1895 as you know it today. Therefore, it will be long enough, wide enough, and strong enough to fire the 577 NE 3" (750 gr @ 2150 fps). Then if the everyone wants to complain about reliability, they can line up and test that very rifle for that very purpose. We shall see how many full house 577 NE rounds they can touch off. I suspect the rifle will be more reliable than the testers.

This will be a very challenging project from the fabrication side, and very unique. I like unique, by the way. I just cannot stand having the same thing as everyone else. I think anyway you look at it, this would be a very cool, one-of-a-kind rifle!

Scott

When you lever guys find a lever gun that will push a 300 gr. bullet of .366 cal with a SD of .300 to 2100 FPS then you will have a bare minimum dangerous game rifle for Africa.

When the bigger bore Lever fans find a lever gun that will push a 400 gr. bullet of .300 SD to 2100 FPS you will have a better DGR..

When you come up with a 500 gr. 458 with SD or .300 and mV of 2100 you will be in tall cotton..

But like most wildcatters who claim great MV at the expense of undue pressure, you must do all the above at mild pressure that will be condusive to African temps.. .

That is the goal you must realistically set for yourself, and I do not believe that it can be done safely, but the 50-140 sharps although not a lever gun in my mind is pretty close to qualifying and I would use it...

Common since, not hap hazard wild, off the wall, claims based on heresay and BS is not the convincer that will work for you to prove your case... Show us doubters and we will bow to your deeds..Make your case with fact not folley...I would love it if I had a sho nuff Buff gun in Lever persuation, I love and hunt with them, but not big game, just deer...

Quoting some manufacturer or hunter who goes and shoots a Buffalo or two with a 45-70 means zilch to me..I have killed Buffalo with an 8x57m, 308 and 7x57 and I witnessed a elephant shot with a 7x57 in the shoulder that died pretty quickly, another of a Buffalo shot and killed with a 22 Hornet, an elephant killed with a 44 magnum, but I don't make claims of them being dangerous game rifles as they are
not, such examples are horse hockey.

Develope a cartridge that meets the legal criteria that I have set fourth and then you can beat your chests and holler Halliluya all day long...

HI,

I have said I love levers, so take this into account. I had a 50 alaskan and it is a great round and I am sure it could handle any Buff. I did sell it and went with my 50-110 as 500 grains is right about the numbers, it came very close to the DR requirements, but not really dead on.And this is why I moved up to the 50-110, again the 50AK is a great round,but the requirements that DR round has been around for along time and it has been thought out to a great deal, so I think it may come down to the person. I said awhile before this post that the 50 cal levers, which are coming out now are really going to give levers new life and will meet any requirements and I said long before they will only get better. I do think, like 500 grains points out, required numbers are there for a reason and one has to take this into account. I try to have a open mind with this and I do love levers and have drop 1,000 and 1,000 of bucks on my lever and reloading equipment .I do understand also that the requirements were not just pulled out of the air , they are there for a reason, they were put into place because this is what has been proven to work. When I hear about 50 cals and now other rounds, like a 577 nitro, this will put the requirement part to bed. Kev

I have a friend who recently obtained some Winchester 1887 lever shotgun actions. He's planning to build three rifles on them in .577 Snider. This round comes in about about 2.5 inches long and should feed perfectly. Now, some may sniff at this old black powder round, but not me. A 650-grain .590 slug moving at 1200 fps will do a lot of honest work, at least on thin-skinned critters.

Only for the sake of aurgument the .450/45-70 in a 24 inch barrel can meet the requirements of Dangerous game.Rick Jaimeson tested the 300 Nosler in the 450 Marlin and got 2488 fps at 4124 ft lbs of energy and only 40,600 PSI.If it was to get 2600 fps it would be over 4500 lbs of energy and certainly within the limits of the action.I know the 300 Nosler is not my choice for dangerous game or the 45-70 for that matter but maybe a Hawk with a .050 or .065 jacket would work better.

There are better choices out there for Dangerous game for sure but sometimes we overlook the lever guns in longer barrel lengths that ad alot of velocity and energy as with most 24 inch Magnums.

Just my opinion.Jayco.