Since my wife took second in Rusty's double rifle shoot, she has claimed the 450/400 3 1/4" as her own. Once that happens all I get to do is load the ammo and clean the bbls. So I "think" I need another big bore double to go with my 450 No2, after all you just have to have a spare that you are really familar with in case of unforseen hazards. Even my wife agrees. The question is what calibre?. Should I try and find another 450/400 3 1/4" that will shoot the same load as my original 400?, or get another 450 No2 that will shoot the same loads as my 450 No2?... Or go WHOLE HOG and get a 577 Nitro or a 600 Nitro? I must admit I lean toward the 577, 600 route. As a good friend used to say " if you are going to be a Bear, be a Grizzly". I do not consider myself a collector but a hunter/shooter, all of my doubles have been shoot several hundred times each, and will continue to be shot quite a bit. [This is why I need a spare]. I'll admit I have yet to shoot a 577 or a 600, so when I do I may have to change my mind. I agree with Atkinson in that painful recoil is a bad thing. JOHN TAYLOR has stated that he found the recoil from His 600 to be less than the recoil from His 577. Can anyone who has shot both comment on this? The rifle weight of these ultra big bores is certainly a consideration, but I have used rifles as heavy on flat ground without a problem. [a HK 91 with scope and bipod weigh about 15 lbs. and I used to hunt with one of these quite a bit, Antelope, and Deer]. I have handled one 600 that "fit" me perfectly. So what do ya'll think. Please indicate your experience with the 577 or 600 in your reply. Thanks

To tell you the truth, I'd look for a 475 #2.
A friend of mine has a Jeffery 475 #2 and it is an elephant kill'n rifle! It shoots a nice BIG bullet and the recoil isn't that bad. As I remember George had a 475 # 2 in Dallas.

I think you'd get a lot more enjoyment out of that chambering than a 577 or 600! Just my opine!

Rusty
We band of brothers!

Since you already have a 450 No2 I would say go for the 577NE. Otherwise I would get a 500 NE. Truth is there is little difference in performance between a 450 No2 and a 475 No2. The 500 NE outperforms both by a slight margin. I have never witnessed a 577 NE, but from all accounts it is a marked improvement over the lesser calibers.

I bet there are a lot of things you've never witnessed Todd. Most of them got to do with guns! Now put your books up and go to bed.

NE

I have all three of the .577's

A Thys 3" at 11.5lbs. Too light and new. Every shoot we have I take it and let the other guys shoot it to set it in. 50 rounds so far. It KICKS.

Hollis .577 2 3/4 750 grn. 11lbs. Great rifle easy to shoot an accurate. 750 grn. at 1850fps.
(I can also shoot these loads in my Thys and get acceptable, barely, avg. 6" @100yds.)

Alex Henry .577 2 3/4 650grn. pleasant shooter, very accurate 1950fps shot an elephant with it and performed perfectly.

Had a friend with a 600 for awhile. 13 1/2 lbs. Too light. kicked the snot out of me and everyone who shot it. He finally got rid of it at the SCI show a few years ago. Haven't seen the guy who bought it since. It probably killed him!

My humble opinion is I really like the 2 3/4 750 gr. Same energy as the 500, more pleasant to shoot,and bigger frontal area, and less expensive than the 3".

"Too much gun is better than the alternative"

[ 08-04-2002, 19:24: Message edited by: Gator1 ]

Thanks for the replies. Rusty, I know the 475 is an excellent calibre, But it is so close to the 450 No2 that I would rather have two doubles in the same calibre. TODD E you are correct, if I "want" MORE POWER THAN THE 450 MIGHT AS WELL GET THE 577NE. Actually 577 brass is quite a bit cheaper than 450 No2 brass. Gator 1 good info thanks, a 577 3" at 11 lbs. kicks too much. I would have thought so, my 450 weighs 11.5+, can't imagine that 577 being pleasant. A 13.5 lb 600 also a bad kicker... I have handled, not shot an original Jeffery 600 Nitro at 14 lbs. With the Jeffery load of a 900gr. at 1850 fps I wonder how that would feel? MacD37 told me a 577 3" at 13 lbs was uncomfortable to shoot with 750gr. loads. He did say a 500NE at 12 lbs was tolerable and he was able to get off a second aimed shot fairly quickly. Thanks again for the info, keep it comming. I believe Rifle fit is more important than the actual calibre, as any of these 400 and up Nitro rounds can get the job done, but when traveling and limited to 11lbs of ammo having two rifles of the same calibre, that shoot the same loads simplifys things in case of a breakage of one rifle. However having two rifles in the same calibre is like dating identical twins, no variety, no spice, now a 577 or a 600, there is SPICE. P.S. if I hunt with MS maybe I need a gun as big as his.

Myself, having been the crash, er, laod test dummy for a 577, would vote for a 470, a 500 3.25, or, lord-love-a-duck, a 500/416. The 577 is the only one head and shoulders above the rest, and the 600 brass is CRAZY in price. can you say six bucks a hit, on sale?
I am really torn on a 470 or 500... the 500 might be fun, due to cheap 50 bmg pulled bullets (in backwards, RL 15) for practice.
Hey, I bet the wife would give you the 450 back for a 500/416...
jeffe

Having owned doubles in about every caliber from 465 clear through 577 I would advise against a 577 unless you intend letting a bearer carry the thing. Any true nitro gun, not a re-proofed BP model, will weight at least 13 pounds, and that's way too much to carry for any length of time.
The best compromise between portability and power is the 500-3". My last one weighed just 10-1/2 pounds and was no problem to carry or shoot with reasonable comfort. 570grs @ 2125fps is a helluva killer, make no mistake and there is a difference between it and anything smaller when it matters.

I think the 500 NE or the 470 are the best calibers for obvious reasons...both will do the job and have been proven in the field....components are available and they have better resale value.

I personally prefer the 450-400-3" or the 500/416 has a lot of appeal...both will do.

500 NE seems to be the biggest that most mortals can handle well.

470 NE is a little easier to get ammo for.

So, your best rifle has been usurped!

Since the .450 No. 2 will remain on hand, my first thought was smaller - a .375 flanged magnum, but then you also have a great 9.3.

In the other direction, a "light" .577 could be fun, which is always a good enough reason to get one. For the applications it would be suitable for though, I would prefer the No. 2.

The .600s and .577-100-750s do represent a significant increase in power but, as has always been the case, this is relevant only with respect to elephant. Unless you have jumbo in your future the extra power doesn't justify the weight penalty. Also, somebody will have to do the load development for the thing. Best from a standing rest. Even then, the recoil will be entertaining only to spectators. These rifles will also be EXPENSIVE.

What better back up could you have for your No. 2 than a .450/.400? No weight or recoil problems, good components easily available and the rifles are still a bit cheaper than the rest of the over .40 nitros, and a lot cheaper than the .50+ stuff. Like I said, your BEST rifle has been usurped. Get another .400 and spend the difference on Africa.

Actually, N E 450 No2's best backup is his wife Peggy and her 450/400 3 1/4.

Rusty
We band of brothers!

400 Nitro, and Rusty. I think ya'll have hit the nail on the head. If I could find another 450/400 3 1/4 that shot the same loads as my "swiped" 400 that would be a good way to go. I think the 450/400 is the best double rifle calibre for a person who likes to hunt with a double for all manner of game as I do. Especially as my "swiped" 400 only weighs 9.25lbs. But... If I could find a 450 No2 that shot the same loads as mine... Maybe I need to convince Peggy that She "needs" a spare 450/400 3 1/4 and I "need" a spare 450 No2....yea thats the ticket... And yes there is Elephant in my future. There is just something charismatic about a 577 or a 600. ["How bad have you got it"]. I know I got it bad, but compared to most vices the pocket book is the only damage done. I am suprised that there has not been any support from any members that have shot the 577 or the 600. They may be "too much of a good thing". Unpleasant and/or painful recoil are determental to proper gun handling, especially in a "tight" situation. After all if it can't be handled with a 450/400 400gr. at 2150 it might be time to go thermo-nuclear.

Ya know NE I'd have to agree with 400 here. You just need to take that money and you and your wife go on Safari! That's the best way to spend that "other double rifle money".

Rusty
We band of brothers!

Hi folks can I trouble you for a bit of info?
Firstly I owned a 470 Krieghoff for a short time [sold it for a great price] and now intent to buy another double probably another krieghoff.
I might use this rifle maybe 3-4 times on DGR hunts [but then who knows] would I be better of with a 470 or 500. I know 470 ammo is available just about anywhere but what about 500 ne . Brass is not a problem as Bruce Bertram lives just down the road. I Have been toying with the I dea of a 458 Lott but just love those doubles. Is the Gain of the 500 over the 470 worth the difference in availability of ammo.
Thanking you g
Guesty