The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Woodleighs too soft?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| One of Us |
I've read a bit on here and other places about people considering woodleigh rnsn too soft in some of their calibers. I only have experience with woodleighs on one animal so far and they performed well (small interior grizz with a 500gr out of a 458 lott) and it seemed to perform perfectly. Not particularly worried about it considering i more than likely wont be hunting DG of any sort for quite awhile, just deer, elk and black bear. I'm just curious about others experiences and thoughts. I'll be using the 570gr rnsn in my 500 nitro no1 once its finished, unless someone has a better suggestion for an "affordable " jacketed bullet. | ||
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| One of Us |
I have limited experience also. I used the 347 grn 423 Woodleigh in a 10.75x68 twice as back-up on moose hunts. Slammed one shot each in behind the last rib as they turned to run after the first shot. Moose seem like they have to run a little even if they are dead and don't know it. Anyway, bullets traveled through the liver, lungs and excited the front of the chest in the armpit area of the moose. | |||
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| one of us |
A-frame would be another good choice. | |||
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| One of Us |
I've looked at A frames a bit, havent bought any yet though, over $2 a bullet. Not sure if i need them for elk, but i may order a box anyways | |||
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Woodleigh's site lists their optimum bullet velocity windows. Stay within those parameters and I imagine one would have no trouble. | |||
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| One of Us |
I plan too, no reason to push a 570gr bullet any faster than 2100 at the muzzle | |||
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| one of us |
Ive used woodleigs in Africa for years in a lot of calibers and on all available species. I field tested Woodleighs for Geoff in the 450 gr. 40 caliber softs and solids, as well as the 350 in the 375. Ive used them on elk, Mule deer, and bear...They are not too soft, they expand and they penetrate in a good balance, they are an outstanding bullet..Ive gone beyond their listed perimeters more than a few times and had perfect results on both ends.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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| One of Us |
Thanks for the information! I may just stick with woodleighs for now, unless i happen upon a good deal on a frames | |||
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At 500 NE velocities Woodleighs might out perform A-Frames, though I like A-Frames a lot. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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| one of us |
In a 458 Lott, a 500gr A-frame is as tough as a 550gr Woodleigh and much tougher than a 500gr Woodleigh.I have shot a 500gr A-frame at the head of a buff from the front and it was recovered from the brain.I have also shot a 550gr Woodleigh soft just behind the ear and above the jaw of a large buff and it killed the buff instantly.There was very little left of the bullet however and had barely penetrated the tough jaw bone. | |||
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| One of Us |
Thats an interesting observation. I wonder if the woodleigb, being "softer" would be better for north american game? I mean, I suppose a .510 hole is still a .510 hole | |||
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| One of Us |
A 375 H&H 300g A-Frame that diagonally penetrated an 8 1/2 brown bear diagonally from front right shoulder to stopping in the skin after going through the left rear thigh. Shot at 13 yards. Still weighs 299.5 grains. I'm shooting 570g TSXs out of my 500 Jeffery at 2300 fps. Been too lazy to load the 570g A-Frames I have. Maybe this fall.  Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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| One of Us |
What part of alaska are you in? I just got out of the army and my last duty station was wainwright. I havent tried the a frames in any caliber yet, but i used 500gr woodleighs for my interior grizz with excellent results | |||
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| One of Us |
Isn't the 500 Gr. Woodleigh PP supposed to open a little slower than the round nose? Though about trying some of those in a 458 @ 2150 FPS. EZ | |||
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On Australia's biggest guns/hunting forum there a lots of blokes use them and on all things including of course the water buffalo. Lots of them shooting buffalo with the 270 grain PP in the 375. The pictures of recovered ones look good, very jagged looking things. Remember as well lots of these bloke live in the Northern Territory and shoot lots of buffalo. The also get good results with those 270 grain PP 375s on pigs and goats. The only issue with them is if are looking for top accuracy from a very accurate gun then they are likely to fall a bit short. | |||
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| One of Us |
Luckily with a 500 nitro, pinpoint accuracy past 150 isnt an issue haha. I have a buddy in the northern territories that uses many big bores for his buff hunts and uses almost exclusively woodleighs. I think he just finished his 600 overkill | |||
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| One of Us |
In his book, "Rifles For Africa", Gregor Woods recounted his preference for the 550 Woodleigh in his 458 Lott for shooting buffalo in herds since it was not overpenetrative instead stopping in the offside shoulder on broadside shots at approx. 2000 fps. | |||
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| One of Us |
Since your 500NE is on a Ruger No.1 and you don't have to worry about regulation issues, Woodleigh also make a 450gr RN 510 cal for the 500 BPE and a 500gr FN 510 cal for the 50/110. These bullets would probably make more sense for NA use when used within their design parameters. | |||
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| One of Us |
I've considered that, but some day id like to make it back to alaska, or to oz or africa with this rifle. And I'd like to have one load for everything if possible. Instead of multiple loads built up | |||
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| One of Us |
When I hunted water buff in Australia's Arnhen Land my Ph complained that he wasn't getting the penetration he wanted with 500 grain Woodleighs out of his 458 win mag and that he was thinking about getting a 458 lott to increase penetration. He had backup shots for his clients and had taken 7 or 8 management bulls on his own to base that on. | |||
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| one of us |
Ive shot a hell of a lot of Buffalo with Woodleighs..The RN is for herd hunting wherein you do not want anymore penetration than the RN which is designed to stop on the off side skin and it does just that 99.9% of the time, so you don't wound or kill something on the other side of the intended bull... The PP on the other hand is the total opposite, and is designed to hunt the Dagga boys or loners that sometimes separate themselves alone or in groups..Its a much tougher bullet and Ive found the 550 gr. .458 bullet in PP to be the very best and it expands and penetrates like a solid for all practical purposes, and again the RN 550 expands to a 25 cent piece as a rule.. For any head shots I advise a solid no matter the caliber or weight of bullet for buffalo and even spine shots where the situation allows time for such, if not then the PP is the next best option.. I shot my largest elk bull with a 300 gr. .338 Woodleigh in the flank as he moved out at about 200 yards, the bullet penetrated the body fully and was found under the skin behind the ear, that's penetration and the butcher accused me of using a cannon, meat damage was a little much IMO also.. I broke down a bull with a hip shot and have seen a number of hip and anus shots on Buffalo as they almost always take off no matter where the first shot goes short of the brain or spine, those Woodleighs always gave full penetration of the body after driving thru the stomach full of wet grass and/or breaking the hip bone socket... Ive killed or observed perhaps 100 or more bulls shot thru the shoulders then shot going away mostly with Woodleighs but with other bullets as well. Not to mention bulls killed by other clients and this conversations taking place that night around the campfire.. I don't make judgements on a single kill on anything. Just a single 30 day Safari with Saeed and his 15 to 20 guests talleys up quite a number of buffalo kills, and that got me an education on monolithics on buffalo and PG, as that is what they all used best I recall... t There are a lot of good bullets out there, in fact few fail these days, partitions, bonded cores, the great Hornady interlock, or Rem Corelokt, they all work, and flat nose solids if your rifle will feed them are great..There is no best, there is only different experiences, some valid other not. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Thanks Ray, not only did I find that very informative but made me think yet again, we need you to write a book! | |||
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| one of us |
When did Woodleigh make a .458, 550gr PP? | |||
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One of Us |
I wouldn't be too happy about a bullet than only just got to the brain of a buff with a frontal head shot or for that matter did not exit from a behind the ear shot. Obviously the animals died but only just  I used solids on buffalo I shot as I need the bullet to get where I want it and then some. Last thing I want to be thinking about is whether the bullet will perform or not. | |||
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| one of us |
Yes I agree best use solids in those two situations. The head shot was on my first buff.A solid should have been used.The second was the first shot.We were waiting for the buff to get up from rest.He did not and I used the soft for the shot. Anyways,the point I am trying to make is that ,as for softs, if a 500gr A-frame will only make it to the brain and a 550 did not pass imagine a lighter or more fragile soft.It is good to know that if I have an A-frame in my chamber or a 550gr Woodleigh, I have a good bullet should an error or an emergency occur and I have to use it to stop a charge. | |||
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I have shot Woodleigh bullets on game using .458, .366 and .308 cal rifles. I have had great results, and nothing I ever shot has complained. The below 500gn round nose soft and solids were recovered from a cape buffalo. Rifle was a 458 Ackley.   Below 180gn was not shot by me. It is recovered from a Sambar stag. Rifle was a 308Win.   I have had super impressive results with Woodleigh bullets in 9.3 too, but never recovered one from a shot animal. In case you are wondering, I like Woodleigh bullets. | |||
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| One of Us |
I have seen heaps of pictures of them on Australia's biggest gun forum and a lot of them remind be on those original Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. Real jagged looking things. A lot of those Swift A Frames look like a very smooth ball at the front. I once read that Geoff McDonald would test a new bullet on buffalo as well as big kangaroos, goats and pigs and if work on the big and smaller animals the bullet was good to go. I have never shot big animals but if I did and especially with 375 etc. (as opposed to 30/378, 378 etc.) I think Woodleighs would probably be my choice. Remember a lot of blokes using them in Australia are shooting lots of animals. | |||
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If I had to choose a different bullet in my 375 Weatherby than the 300g A-Frame at 2800 fps, it would be the Woodleigh 350g HD soft point at 2550 fps. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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| one of us |
Im with McGuire on his post, I see folks fawning over those smooth as a babys butt mushroomed bullets..I don't care for them at all, they make campfire conversation and impress the newbes and some oldies too.. Give me a ragged edged bullet like a Woodleigh and internal damage is much better, its a buzz saw effect as compared to a marble effect such as a muzzle loader ball gun. To each his own, its a fireball subject on these forums..     Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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| One of Us |
At risk of going off topic: Ray, what do you think about the old Winchester Failsafe? They were said to give that buzz-saw effect. Thinking of that marble effect you mention, I seem to recall that conical bullets like Minie balls were much more lethal in your Civil War than round balls. | |||
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| One of Us |
I'm thoroughly enjoying the information and opinions being shared here, I'm of the thought that either style would work, that the smooth edges would work like a larger flat nose in creating a large wound channel, whereas the ragged edged one would cause more (probably only slightly) damage | |||
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| One of Us |
I realize now how simple that last comment made me sound, was wrestling with my toddler and wasnt paying attention to what was being typed | |||
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| One of Us |
Of course I am only guessing but I imagine the jagged projectile would cause more damage when the projectile have got to a lower velocity in their travel through the animal. | |||
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one of us |
Just for reference: 750gr Woodleigh Weldcore fired into water jugs at 2400 fps. Recommended velocity range is 1800-2100 fps. Visit the bottom of the web page for more: 750 gr Weldcore vs water jugs at higher than recommended velocity  | |||
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| One of Us |
Partly correct. However, the number of turns in a given distance could increase. However, even if there was zero rotation I think a jagged bullet travelling theough flesh would do more damage than and a bullet that has expaned into a smooth ball like front section. | |||
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| one of us |
Alf depends on the twist, Lot of experimentation going on with that..George Hoffman tested twist effect in Africa early on,and had some great results, but forget the term, Buzz Saw, that just came off the top of my head, to emphasize the effect of a bullet like a Woodleigh or one of Carters old bullets, even a Barnes has more killing effect than a bullet that forms a smooth ball. Sorry if it bothered you.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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| One of Us |
Many many many years ago a bloke on a shooting trip brought a bow and arrow. We could hit nothing with it. Although chasing some kangaroos we managed to hit one on the lower part to one side of the back leg. As far as I know it is still hopping away. However, we were keen to see how good the thing would be with a chest shot. So while chasing them we hot one in the general hip area with a 22 rimfire auto and that pulled up its hopping. It was fully alive and sort of had itself propped up. From a few feet away (not a big kangaroo) I shot it in the chest and the arrow was sticking out the other side by a few inches. The roo just looked at us if nothing happened and one of the blokes said "will it ever die?" I can't remember exactly how long it was, might have been 5 or 10 minutes and then it slowly faded away to lay on the ground. Several months later at a gunsmith I met a bloke there who was a real bow and arrow man. So I told him of our experience and the thing was useless. He then said the problem was the arrows were not sharp enough. I said to him the arrow went all the way through and was sticking out the other side. He them said the problem with the arrow that is not sharp enough is it pushes blood vessels and flesh to one side rather than cutting everything in its path. maybe jagged bullet and round shape expanded bullet is similar deal. | |||
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Just one example, but a good one, of why I have always liked Woodleigh bullets. About 20 years ago, I killed a Cape buffalo bull in Tanzania with this 500 grain Woodleigh Weldcore soft point fired at about 2,250 fps from my .458 Lott.  I shot him in the chest, as he was facing me at a distance of about 35 yards. It was a one shot kill. The bullet passed through his heart and was recovered deep in his guts. I rate that as good performance. I would not hesitate to use Woodleigh softs on any big game animal that does not warrant the use of solids. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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| One of Us |
No experience at all with buffalo, but if you're shooting a 375 H&H, the Woodleigh 350g HD soft points in some tests have expanded like Mike's bullet and out penetrated 300g A-Frames and 300g TSX's. I'm loading them in our 375 Weatherby to 2550 fps for North American game. Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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One of Us |
If there is a question, just use a TSX and be done with it. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Woodleighs too soft?
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