Folks,

A few weeks ago in another thread, I mentioned that I'd post photo's of the recoil lug mechanism of my Ruger RSM in 458 Lott.

I needed to get the correct size screw driver bits, before I could pull the action from the stock.

Here are the photos:







The photos don't show it well, but the barrel itself has an angled 'nut' that fits in the lug bar (top photo, right end of the bar). The front action screw then pulls the barrel, lug bar, and stock very tightly together.

The recoil lug itself (as well as the remainder of the bar and action) is very precisly fit into the stock.

I'm not a mechanical engineer, nor a gunsmith, but it looks adequate to me. Any comments?

Take Care,

-Steve

Steve,

It is a bit different to the earlier ones. They had the a small slot machined across the bottom of the action and the recoil plate had a sort of lip that fitted the slot across the action. A real pain to bed, especially the early Ruger 375s that had the sling swivel as a band around the barrel but in the forend.

As to strength there is no doubt such a system is good. In the past on Wby Mark Vs I have had a plate made from 1/4" steel with a slot at one end and the action's recoil lug has had about 1/4" machined off each side. The plate has been epoxied up into the forearm and was a permanent fixture. This of course allows a full floating barrel and makes for easy barrel switching.

Mike

My 77 in 458 HE wildcat has same bedding bars, and worked so well for over 2000 rounds, that I
got a bunch more from Ruger and use them also on
Enfields for wildcatting.I use Ruger barrel rings in the front of stock also on all of them.The
two in combination hold recoil great.Ed.

Since Axel is a mechanical engineer who likes to do calculations, he should be able to do a static analysis to determine if the Ruger system is any good or not. Axel, this is your chance to show us your stuff.

Steve,

Thanks for the pictures. You got a very cool rifle indeed.

The system has been cussed and discussed many times, but the simple fact is that it works and it works well. the actions do not split because a lot of wood is between the recoil lug and the actions magazine...No need for a cross bolt here..Is it a better system? I don't know.

Steve,

Thanks for the pictures. I received my Ruger RSM in 458 Lott one week ago, and I've concluded that Ruger really did their homework on this one.
I'll make some minor modifications (new front bead, F990 recoil pad, minor trigger work) but all in all I'm very happy.

Bryan,

Your going to do basicly what I'm going to do as well.

I'm going to replace the front sight. If I had one complaint, it is the front sight. I find it really hard to acquire. I'm looking a the NECG sights. But I want to get some loads worked up before getting the new sight, in case I have to go up or down.

I've got a 'Limbsaver' pad on order.

Also looking for a trigger.

I might send it off to Mark Penrod to go through it all, as well.


Take Care,

-Steve

One thing is certain: A traditional primary recoil lug on the action PLUS a traditional recoil lug on the barrel COMBINED (with glass bedding and cross bolts fore and aft of the magazine well) will be far stronger than the solitary Ruger recoil plate with no integral lug on the rifle anywhere.

Ruger does put one crossbolt through the stock in a position that makes you think there ought to be a recoil lug on the action, but there isn't, just a small investment cast bushing that the recoil plate hooks over, and the 45 degree front action screw forces the bushing and recoil plate together. This plate separates from the bushing when you unscrew the front action screw.

It is not pretty underneath. Its only advantage must be accuracy potential, though plenty of my barrel-lugged rifles, that have recoil lugs on the action also, can shoot sub MOA. So that is no biggy.

Must be a cost savings to Ruger. They blew their margin on the quarter rib integral to barrel, in plain sight, so have to make it up where the sun don't shine, hidden under the wood.

Ah well, I can live with one in .416 Rigby, it is pretty, on the outside.

[ 11-24-2003, 20:36: Message edited by: RIP ]

What is the advantage of this system over the more traditional double recoil lug? Why would you not need to double cross bolt? What keeps the action from swinging around the front action screw/plate assembly and screwing up your accuracy? Seems like a POS to me, but I am a M700 guy so it doesn't matter really anyway.

Kent

RIP--That Ruger bedding bar and the barrel band
on the end of the stock that is on my 458HE is
still stronger than any of the two recoil lug systems(One on action and one on barrel.I have close to 2000 rounds of my wildcat 458HE
through mine and never split the stock in the fore end, where action screws are or magazine area.Don't even have crossbolts. One load(Unintended) was
15,000 ft lbs.That lug on the action that fits bedding bar is heat treated and as strong as the action, to the same high tensile strengh as
forged actions.No other brand anywhere that is stronger.Ed.

There is no "lug" on the action. It is a round "boss" raised around the front action screw hole little more than 1/2" in outside diameter, which the bigger hole in the "recoil plate" loosely fits over. Tightening the 45 degree front action screw pulls the boss up tight against the rear side of that hole in the recoil plate, while the recoil plate front end anchors in the forearm, and ties the stock to the barreled action, by this slip fit under tension in the long axis of the gun. The action screws keep the gun tied down to the stock in the perpendicular to bore axis.

All the recoil force of the gun comes to bear on that one little boss around one screw hole in the bottom of the front receiver ring. In fact, it all comes to bear at one point on the rear side of that boss.

There had better be some good metallurgy going on there!

Ruger really knows their metalurgy,We ran that one overload I had, through the formula, and it was about 130,000 psi, and action is still going strong.It has 110 ft lbs of recoil with 13.5 lb
rifle, so that lug fitted into the bedding bar is really doing a good job.Ed.

Folks you have to look at this bedding bar system in relation to the rest of the gun.The size of that lug on reciever that goes into the bar isn't big, but it is as big as the two bolt lugs that
holds the chamber pressure(50k psi and more), on firing, that starts the whole recoil process, that
the bedding system has to hold..Ed.

Ed Hubel, my big concern is the torquing this system allows. A normal system has a flat surface on the action acting directly against the stock. Nice and square! In this system that is not true. The action is retained with a rounded surface acting against a rounded surface. What keeps the action was rotating in the stock and constantly changing the contact pressure on the barrel at the forward end of the stock? Remember Ruger is famous for their upward pressure on the barrel at the forward end of the stock. Seems to me that this system is a "wandering zeroes" dream come true.

Kent

PS - How did you overload your cartridge? Were you using pistol powders or something? Did the case fail?

[ 11-26-2003, 21:26: Message edited by: Kent in IA ]

Kent--On big bores Rugers like mine there is a
barrel ring that holds barrel to end of stock.
So it doesn't wander.

THE OVERLOAD---In our load testing if a case stuck a little when opening bolt I had a steel
rod that I used to loosen case when dropped down barrel, while pulling on bolt handle.That kept
us from tearing up rims.Got interrupted when using rod,while extracting a case came back
3 hours later, loaded 350 gr bullet and 130
of powder cartridge, and shot out the rod also that I left in.Rod was 3000 grains, as I weighed it after.Case didn't fail, Bolt didn't fail.Brass expanded so bolt couldn't move.Primer blew.Bulged
chamber ahead of action .030.No loss as it was; planning to put long barrel on, that just came.
Took barrel and case out with my lathe. We checked
action and rebarreled.Still shooting after another 900 rounds.Oh, and all later load
testing used a new rod a foot longer than barrel with a red flag on it...Ed

RIP,
What a croc! the stocks are holding up, not splitting and the guns are very accurate, where do you come up with this stuff, just make it up in your sinelity Do you have ANY basis for such statements are is something new in the industry just scare you?

Just thought you need a lashing, way over due.

Heh, heh, heh ... if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black, then I don't know what is ... "senile" ... "crock" ... heh, heh, heh ...

I thought it was funny, the Rube Goldberg engineered bedding system, and this thread ... it keeps getting funnier all the time.

Better to laugh than cry, when the truth hurts. But let's not get mad and call names ... heh, heh, heh.

Stirred that old black pot some, I reckon!

RIP

All problems associated with the Ruger recoil lug system are due to the messy problem of bedding them and of course the fact that on an expensive rifle the whole thing falls apart in your hands. But none of that means it does not work.

For your information, Sako has for many years on their pre 75 action used a cross bolt which the recoil lug rests against and what the recoil lug rests against is round, so we therefore have very small contact.

On Wby Mark Vs, we use a plate that is about 1 inch wide, a 1/4" thick and about 6" long and with a slot about 1/2" wide into which the action recoil lug fits after it has had about 1/4" machined off each side. No matter how good your efforts in lining things up (before the plate is epoxied into the stock) you have at best "point" contact between the action recoil lug and the back of the slot. Never a problem.

Is the Ruger loose plate cheap and shitty..Yes.

Does it look and feel terrible when you see it..Yes

Is it annoying on a rifle of that cost..Yes

But like the equally annoying Remington recoil lug it will and does work for the intended purpose.

You should be highly critical of the Ruger and other rifles but only in those areas that deserve criticism.

Mike

Mike--On my 77 the plate is tight, held that way by the screw in front of plate.And as I said above I got a half dozen sets from Ruger, barrels, rings, and all.Use them on heavy hitters.The bedding is great as long as the bar is a little below the wood on each side, where the flat bottom of the reciever sets.Then it sets even and level.I relieve barrel channel wood and use a hard thin rubber pad on end, and snug barrel ring to it.Holds recoil great.I think you doing bedding bar system with Weatherbys saves
you stock troubles.Could you post photo?Ed.

Ed,

I don't have any photos but even if I did all you see is a typical bedding job except that the section around the recoil lug is only about half inch or so wide wide.

The idea is to be free of a lug on the barrel for the purposes of barrel switching and also a barrel job for the gunsmith is no different to doing a 222.

Mike

This is the exact same system that is on my mid 1980s Ruger 77 .458 and the newer 77M .416 Rigby. I had the barrel band through the stock on the .458 but it was removed when the whole gun was Black T'ed by Birdsong. That through the stock barrel band did nothing but add a pressure point to the barrel and hurt accuracy. It did nothing needed so far as holding the rifle together to the stock. Both rifles have been steel bedded and there have been no stock splits, not wandering zeros, no problems of any kind. While not as old a system as the conventional recoil lugs, it is anything but new and with the well over a thousand rounds through the my 77 and many hundreds through the 77M if anything was going to happen I think it would have happened by now. Just because the contact points between the receiver and recoil lug are rounded does not mean the rest of the action is flopping in the wind. The bottom of the action is flat and fits into the stock quite nicely, not to mention a perfect fit after bedding. Take out the recoil plate and put the rifle back together (just don't shoot it this way) and you will see that the action is still held pretty firmly in the wood, not at all prone to twisting or pivoting. I don't understand why some are so concerned about "what if" problems that the last 15 + years have proven do not exist. The system works, it doesn't split stocks, it doesn't wander zero, and it does allow the rifles to hold MOA or better accuracy with outstanding repeatability.

RIP,
Gotcha!

Sorry old boy, but I was getting bored.

Ray,
Uncle! I've had all the fun I can stand!
The Ruger bedding system is wonderful! I love those Rugers! All of 'em! Now whenever I take my super accurate .416 Rigby Ruger M77 RSM out of the stock, I shall be proud!

Thanks to all for convincing me.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!