Hi
So the 375 H&H recoils, enough to bruise my shoulder a bit, and, I'm not all that jazzed about siting it off the bench.

I'm wondering if I should just shoot it off hand, Magna Port it, or buy a break?

Anyone used these methods, and perfer one over the other?

Porting probably gives me a cleaner look, and, I'm not much for hanging something off the front of the barrel. However, if the breaks are that good, I might consider it.

Thanks

gs

If sitting at the bench is the only time it really hits you then the best idea is to shoot with a shotbag or sandbag to absorb the recoil.

My brother had his 375 cz550 magnaported. Honestly he can't say it did a great deal to the felt recoil.

On the other hand the muzzlebrake on my 585 makes it a lot softer(this muzzlebrake is 4 "long though).

Regards,
Karl.

I have quite a bit of experience with Porting and brakes, both before and after. In a nut shell, porting will reduce muzzle jump but not much in the straight back recoil. Noise is slightly increased. Brakes reduce the jump and recoil a lot, but also increases noise a lot. If it is a bust in the chops that gets you, porting will solve the problem. If it is the slam in the shoulder you find objectionable, then braking will fix it. Just never, and I mean never shoot it without hearing protection, not even when hunting. Invest in a brake, invest in a set of electronic ear muffs or sonic ear valves that cut out the concussion also.

Ditto what Big Bore said. If it were me I would just buy a Past Recoil Pad for my shoulder, this will reduce felt recoil with a 375 H&H to a very tolerable level. IMO you do not need a muzzle brake or magna porting on a 375 H&H the recoil is not bad at all.

[ 06-25-2002, 13:32: Message edited by: Mitch ]

Socrates,

The best, easy and cheapest way to reduce recoil of a .375 H&H rifle is to purchase a Pachmayr Decelerator. And put it in place of your current recoil pad.

You're going to think I am full of it, but I find shooting my 30-06 prone with a tight sling much more tolerable and almost as steady as shooting off a bench. I get a little sore at the end of a box of cartridges when shooting off sandbags, but two or three boxes prone is no big deal at all. It hurts less than shooting offhand.

Prone without a sling is a different matter. I tried this with 3" slugs in my shotgun, and it hurts about as much as shooting at the bench.

H. C.

P. S.

I have a strong bias against porting or muzzle braking anything. I don't want the extra noise or the extra work of cleaning out those extra holes, and I don't want extra things out there that can get snagged on brush.

[ 06-25-2002, 20:15: Message edited by: HenryC470 ]

I recommend a brake, they work, the reduce recoil considerably and make one who is recoil shy shoot better.....and thats the bottom line...

Noise?? According to some ear specialist that I hunted some time back, the decibal increase of the KDF was two decibals...that doesn't seem like much to me...I know a big bore will getcha hearing with or without a brake, that I can attest to....

The brake will teach you to shoot big bores, and in time you will be taking it off more and more until you no longer need it....that has been my experience.

Socrates,
Skip all the noise and just put on a Pachmayer triple X Magnum recoil pad. It will make your gun shoot very soft and you won't have to put up with all the noise. That muzzle brake might only be 2 decibels louder but just have something on the side to bounce it back and it will roll you over.

470 Mbogo

I'm with the antibrake contingent. I had a Browning 30-06 with a brake that just about knocked me down with concussion. The noise was terrible. I offed it in a hurry. I don't consider myself a "Big Bore Junkie" but I can shoot 20 rounds of 450 Dakota from the bench before I start to flinch. I say that only to illustrate the point that a good pad and some getting used to it will help a lot.

I have the same rifle as you (CZ 550 in 375 H&H) and will not port or brake it since I don't think I have to after shooting it. Free-hand is no problem at all and if I don't "hunch" over the gun to much shooting from the bench is tolerable too. Try a better pad first!

Socrates: There are several recoil-absorbing benchrests on the market, or, with just a little bit of initiative, you can build your own. Using one of these is far superior to vandalizing your gun with one of those blast-o-matic noise makers.

Ray: The audiologist said "twelve" decibels, not "two". Be sure to look directly at someone's lips when they speak to you.

Henry: You are indeed a man of great vision, because you correctly anticipated how we would all regard you with a degree of accuracy which is uncanny.

What did Stonecreek say??

Disregard the above...

Stonecreek,
OK, now I'm looking, but your gonna have to spit and give me a hint as to which end I'm looking at

yeah, I like this one better!!

Thanks all for your comments.

I just scoped the gun, putting a Bushnell 3-9x Elite, 3200 on it. That should help a little bit.

Second, it has a Kickease pad on it, which is supposed to be a GREAT pad, similar to the pach.

I looked at the shoulder pad, and think that's the way to go first.

My gunsmith thinks porting, or breaks, are the way to go.

However, after looking at the beautiful 25 inch barrel, with a classic express site on it, I can't see porting it behind the site, makeing it a 22 inch barrel, or, taking the site off, and installing a break.

That said, off the bench, i'm hoping that shoulder pad does the trick.

My problem is shooting technique, too. I keep trying to fire it like it was a 22 long rifle. Aim, relax, pull slowly, hit target.

I haven't been firing rifles for a while. My 06 is in the shop, getting a new glass stock, new trigger, timmeny, with safety this time, and, a new Elite 3200 scope.

So, nothing inbetween to practice with.

Hopefully, with a bit more practice, and maybe some lighter loads, I'll enjoy the 375 a bit more...

gs

As others have suggested, get a PAST pad, it will definately help.

Also equally important are some technique tips. The rifle should be held firmly against your shoulder, and your off hand should firmly hold the forend. Shooting a big bore like a 22 can be done, but it definately generates more recoil then holding it down firmly. I fired my 458 lott br style for 3 shots before realizing it was a bad idea

Simply limit your shooting sessions. When getting used to increased levels of recoil, you may have to stop after 3, 5, 9 or whatever rounds. Never, ever try to shoot through a gun that doesn't feel comfortable to shoot, or you'll develop a flinch for sure. Some days one is more recoil tollerant then others. You should be well rested and relaxed.

Speaking of 22's, take one with you to the range, and alternate between it and the big bore.

If you want to shoot a big bore, that is the biggest part of the battle to deal with recoil. After that, it's all mechanical. You set up the rifle and your bench so that you won't get hurt, then each shot reinforces that the rifle won't hurt you. That and keeping honest with yourself when enough is enough, and there's nothing wrong with cutting your shooting session short is the key to enjoying the thumpers.

On the bench I stuff a bath towel between my shoulder and the butt. If it only bothers you on the bench, you do not need to invest in a brake or magnaporting, but you might want to upgrade the recoil pad.

On my big guns I have a muzzle brake...I also have a thread protector cap so I can take them on and off...If done right you cannot tell it is set up for a muzzle brake when the cap is on because it looks like a muzzle and its crowned....

I like a barrel band front siht and my cap and muzzle break screws in under the barrel band and hides everything....

Muzzle brakes dismiss recoil for all practical purposes and make anyone shoot better..I have proven that a thousand times...

Its mighty nice to go to the range and not get your brains rattled, bursites in your neck and shoulders, that will cripple you later in life. wear ear protection....not a brainer...IMHO

One more tip on shooting from the bench: Most benches are actually a bit too low (or the seat a bit too high), requiring the shooter to hunch over forward to place the butt against his shoulder. This "forward hunched" position is hard on the shooter because (1) it tends to concentrate the recoil on the heel portion of the butt and on a smaller area of the shoulder, and (2) your body does not rock backward upon firing as easily as in a more upright position, thus the recoil is against a "stiffer" shoulder.

And, oh yes, Ray: If you happen to be looking at the wrong end, that spit won't be saliva!

Also, many people tend to place the rifle too far forward on the bench. The butt should protrude behind the bench top so that the upright shoulder can be contacted by all of the butt pad.

The combination of a low bench, hunched over shooter, and small area of butt contact with the shoulder can make even a rifle of modest recoil painful to shoot.

If you take precautions to avoid this unfavorable position, AND use a buffer (sand bag, shot bag, towel) between the butt and your shoulder, it will solve much of your recoil problem.

[ 06-27-2002, 23:49: Message edited by: Stonecreek ]

First, thank you all for the kind replies.

Got the biggest pabst recoil pad they had.
I'll try the towel, and will take particular notice of the bench positions. You are correct, ours do require hunching over. Perhaps a bigger front rest would do the trick for me, or a lower box to sit on.

Ray you hit the nail on the head, and, I think you sold me on a project here.]

What match grade barrel could I buy that would look, and match, the original CZ rifle, yet improve accuracy, give me a little extra barrel length, and allow the use of the express site, and your threaded system, and thread cover?

Pictures would help. I'm planning on taking it into my gunsmith, who can DO anything. Only problem is, you hope you are alive when he finishes.

By the way, while I love big bores, in both pistols, and rifles, I use both 22 short and long for practice. I find they identify basic bad shooting habits quickly. Wonder why you are pulling low left? Get out the 22, and break the habit. Plus, they are fun to shoot, and, they are MUCH cheaper then most.

Paul: Thanks for the tips on session length. I'm not adverse to this, since I use it with full house loads in a 45 Linebaugh.

325's, at 1550 will REALLY get your attention, and, strain your wrists. 12 a session is plenty, and, most guys don't want to fire more then 6.

Plus, until I find a cheaper source of 375, it was costing about 1.75 a round, so I wanted to enjoy every one...

That said, I bring both 22, and bigger guns, everytime to the range.

I found the 22 to shoot better then I could see, with open sites, so I had to scope it. Haven't been back out to test either gun, but both are ready to go.

Now, if I can get the 06 out too, I'll have some real fun...

Thanks all for your suggestions.

I listen, and appreciate your comments, and seriously consider, or use, anything you suggest.

s

Personaly, I hate muzzle brakes and magnaporting. On a hunting rifle they are impractical as you should wear hearing protection with them and, in the field, wearing hearing protection is a real handicap. Often we hear game animals before we see them and we need all the hearing capability that we can muster.

In addition, most PHs that I know also hate them as they are often the ones to cop all of the blast from these devices when fitted to their client's rifles. Remember that a PH is often right next to you, leaning over your shoulder and telling you which animal to shoot and when - if he is cringing away from your muzzle then he is not concentrating on his job of finding you the best trophies and the all important job of keeping you alive, as well!

I believe that the weight of the rifle and stock design are the two best tools we have for reducing felt recoil. I also feel that there is too much made of reducing the weight of our rifles. True, we carry them more than we shoot them but a little weight training will help your muscles adjust to carrying a 10lb plus rifle all day. Months before each safari, I start training by walking long distances, at a brisk pace, with 10lb dumbells in each hand. After a couple of weeks, you start to forget about the weight and are ready to carry your big rifle all day long through the thornbush!

For load development on the range, you can always use a 'sissy-bag' or a strap-on shoulder pad. With the really heavy kickers I usually shoot them, on the range, from the sitting position as you can achieve a fairly solid hold (good enough for minute-of-buffalo load development) and your body flows with the recoil better than off a bench.

On occasions I have shot more than 20 rounds through a .416 Rigby off the bench and more than 40 rounds with a .375 H&H and by the end of each session I was incapable of shooting any more rounds but I wasn't in pain - just the damn muscles in the shoulder were twitching so much that the muzzle wouldn't sit still!!!!! So it can be done if you have the willpower!

Hold the rifle on the forend also. Rest your forward wrist on the sandbag. This postition will absorb a lot of recoil, make you sight and sit more erect and reduce muzzle jump.

The slight extra pulse that you will get is very good aiming practice. You will then learn to call your shots. It's not that hard to remember where each shot when off on the target and construct a "group" in your mind. Target shooters make a mark on a note book for every shot called and compare that to the spotter.

The heck with if the group is 1" or 1.5"! What counts is what you can produce from your own hands.

I also have slip on pads I carry in my shooting box for rifles that kick.

I don't want a muzzle break but if they work for some that's ok.

If a .375 bothers you, you need to make changes! As 470 MBOGO has reminded me a triple X pad will make a world of a difference. As for Muzzel brakes, I've been sold for years and only don't build em in when the caliber is less than .30. Yes they do make a gun louder, but in my opinion thats a good thing( I like big booms, thats why I shoot big bores) and in the field, you will NOT and I repeat NOT need to worry about the muzzel blast as it won't bother you or anyone else. At the nice safe range, yes it will be louder, but while actually hunting? Come on, the additional noise really doesn't matter. For those who disagree, they make nice little sound deadening hearing aids.-Rob

I agree with Rob...I don't have use a muzzle break anymore on rifles up to and including 416 Rem and 404 Jefferys caliber.

I definately want one on anything bigger..Magnaport takes all the up out of a rifle and transfers it stright back...

There is no such thing as a quite muzzle break, the louder one is the better it works, plain and simple and if you believe otherwise you have ripped off..the more gas you direct back the better it works and the louder it is, end of story......all else is tommyrot...

Rob:
What would you install a brake for me on the 375?
I'm looking for one that would thread on in front of the express site on the CZ 550, and, have some sort of cover for the threads so that when I wanted to take the brake off, for field use, I can do so, without the threads being exposed.

Are those triple x pads that much better then the kickeze that's on it?

If you want to take this off the forum,
email is santilli@singleaction45.com

I'm accross the bay from you.

gs

Socrates- I'd be happy to help you, but, unfortunately, to thread and fit a muzzel brake on a CZ550 barrel, I really need to take the barrel off, since I don't have a spider on any of my Lathes. I've just got to make a spider eventually as this problem keeps coming up. The spider will hold the back of the barrel through the headstock with a four jaw holding the muzzel. When properly indicated, this will produce a correctly centered muzzel which of course is required for threading. Unfortunately, CZ550 barrels are locktite'd ( or whatever epoxy the Czechs use) in place. I have not been able to take one off without resorting to a pipe wrench and cheater bar. Soaking in Kroil, heating etc. failed. Chris at Pac-Nor has had very similar experiences. This will mar the barrel which then means turning ( may look ugly) and re-blueing the whole thing. Since the CZ doesn't have scope mount holes, I could not even resort to using an action mandrel and steady rest approach to hold the barreled action centered on the Lathe. I've gotten away with this before on other Mausers, Rems, Winchesters, but it's crappy machining IMHO. You also have to find a .375 brake of the right diameter to fit the CZ muzzel which may or may not be that easy.
I went through all of this myself a few years ago and deceided not to try and use the original barrel,but to rebarrel, thread on a brake I liked, resight and reblue ( if you like SS, beadblasting works nicely). The advantage is that you get exactly what you want and everything fits. The disadvantage is that it costs about $600.
You might talk to John Ricks or Greg tannel as they have Lathes set-up with spiders. That would be a heck of alot cheaper way to go, but you will just have to wait for them as they may be very busy. I don't know anyone else in the Bay area whose work I would trust.-Rob