Michael:

I know that your are planning on taking your 50 B&M Alaskan with you on your next trip to Africa. If you intend to use it on Cape Buffalo, what weight and type of bullet do you have in mind? If you are going to use CEB bullets, do you think the 405 grain solid and 365 grain non con will be heavy enough?

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Michael:

I know that your are planning on taking your 50 B&M Alaskan with you on your next trip to Africa. If you intend to use it on Cape Buffalo, what weight and type of bullet do you have in mind? If you are going to use CEB bullets, do you think the 405 grain solid and 365 grain non con will be heavy enough?

Dave, this is an extremely good question and topic. Very short answer (I am not known for) is that Yes, today, I intend to shoot buffalo with the 50 B&M Alaskan Lever gun, yes I intend to use a 365 #13 NonCon HP up front, with Talon Tip added, and backing that with the 405 Solids. These are in fact my current intentions. I have zero doubts or issues with the 405 Solid and its ability to penetrate from any angle on buffalo, so it is the backup at 2120 fps with 62/IMR 4198.

Now, the question is the 335 #13 HP at 2300 fps or the 365 #13 HP at 2200 fps? I have seen a 335 #13 at even less velocity (I think) knock the crap out of Australian buffalo, and have plenty of penetration, some exiting big cows. My Son Matthew shot his big body bull with the 375 North Fork CPS and one 375 FPS... Incredible success with those. I also plan on working with a 400 North Fork Premium on this trip as well. I have them loaded to 2120 fps too, and will be testing POI at 50 to make sure they are inside proper POI parameters. So working with at least 4 different bullets from the 50 B&M AK.....

I plan right now on a few days of wildebeast, zebra, and whatever else I can find, shooting before going to Zim for buffalo, while I have done extensive test work here with all these same bullets, it helps to see it in animal tissue to confirm.

I like Exits on animals. Currently I believe that either 335 or 365 will have zero issues getting to and even through vitals, but I believe the 365 is more likely to exit than the 335, I could be wrong about this, and both exit. If so it would be of little consequence which one was used first.

I have never ever recommended that anyone use the 50 B&M Alaskan cartridge for buffalo. I believe in hitting buffalo hard and with more. However, I also believe that the 50 B&M Alaskan is more than capable of delivering the package, if I do my job properly. Until I see how it does myself, I can't recommend anyone else do it. I have shot buffalo with 45/70, and it was not impressive, but that was over 10 yrs ago and there were no real and proper bullets for that mission, as there is today. As you know, recently a friend of mine took buffalo with a Marlin 45/70 Guide Gun, with 400 gr BBW#13 Solids that I loaded for him, great success, 1 shot through the heart, it was over in less than 50 yds, down and done. In this particular case, my man shot the 400 Solid well, to his POI, and there was not time enough, and distance was too great between he and I for me to be able to work with him closer using a NonCon or other bullet up front, So I decided the very best thing was to make sure he had one bullet, one load, that no doubt would give penetration he needed, and I was correct on that point in the end.....

The 50 B&M AK has a big advantage over the 45/70. First, its .500 caliber, and caliber makes a BIG BIG difference, even at the exact same velocity. Running the 400 45/70 at 1875 fps, I am running that same bullet at 2120 fps and .500 caliber. Running NonCons much faster, 2200-2300 fps, and we know how they like velocity. So I really have more confidence, but still I also remain conservative until I see for myself. I also never recommended any of the B&M Super Shorts for buffalo hunting, After Australia, I would not hesitate to do so, with the right bullets, and they go beyond just adequate for the mission. I suspect that in the end with the 50 B&M Alaskan, I will see that it too goes beyond just adequate as well.

I am really looking forward to this hunt even more so now that I have finalized the rifle and loads I want to work with, its like a brand new adventure to embark upon for me.........

Michael

Thanks for more good data Michael. Your expectations of performance based on what you know,
coming to be proven is literally fun to "watch" play out.

Michael:

I love lever guns so I am really anxious to see how your hunt turns out. When you get back, if you decide to sell that lovely model 71, can I get first dibs?

quote:

Originally posted by D R Hunter:
Thanks for more good data Michael. Your expectations of performance based on what you know,
coming to be proven is literally fun to "watch" play out.

DR.... It is also fun and gratifying on this end as well... I have not taken a lever gun on a serious hunt in many years, last time was 2002 and 45/70. Back then we had hardly no bullets worthy of big challenges. Buffalo with a 420 Cast performance, everything else with the then newer 350 Hornady, which was and is a great bullet in 45/70. Today, we have many good .458s for 45/70 that are up to heavy challenges.

I also believe the 50 B&M Alaskan is up to par with the bullets we have designed specifically for the cartridge and rifles. From both CEB and North Fork......... These were all tested in a Marlin, and velocity is one notch lower in the Marlin than in the M71s.......

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:
Michael:

I love lever guns so I am really anxious to see how your hunt turns out. When you get back, if you decide to sell that lovely model 71, can I get first dibs?

Dave.... I would not hold my breath if I were you waiting for me to sell either of the M71s I have. I actually have 3 of these, just alike... Figured I would build 3 of them, and one day pass them on to the kids, which I have 3 of the monsters.......

Something else about these particular M71s, they were all hand engraved. The engraving is not pressed as one would think and see on later Winchester 1886s and such. Under a loupe you can see the small imperfections, the stop and start of the chisels and such as that. This amazed me that they would take the time to do that. All these rifles were done in 1986. Later patterns on 1886s were pressed engraved.

Not too long ago Layne Simpson was playing with swaging down some .510 caliber bullets designed for the 50 AK... .510 AK, down to .500 caliber. He sent several for me to test and work with, this is what I came up with...........









As you can plainly see, the penetration increased with the 500 Woodleigh once velocity was brought down a tad.... I brought the Swift down to 1590 or so as well, it stayed exactly the same.....

Michael

Micheal,
interesting sight systems on your 71,how is the peep installed? thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
Micheal,
interesting sight systems on your 71,how is the peep installed? thanks.

Hi Bill

That is an XS Ghost ring rear. Its made to cross the M71s and 1886s at that point where it is installed. But because I use the NECG front barrel band sights, this puts the front sight so high in relation to the rear, I run out of adjustment. So Brian at SSK Industries builds a little bridge that is mounted to the receiver, and the sight mounted to that bridge to raise it up to meet with the front sight.

Thanks for the explanation,I might just have to try it out on one of my levers.

Michael,for my 50 Alaska,I think the 450 grain swift,would be the best bet for a soft bullet out of those you have here right???,Kev

Let me try again, don't think my first reply went through,so Michael out of the bullets here I think the 450 swift would be best for my 50 Alaska,right?soft bullet I am talking about

That .50 Alaskan, is the case based on the .348 Win?
I seem to remember the .348 was also based on something like a .50-110 (or something) used in the Model 1886 Winchester. (Or maybe I dreamt that, I'm not sure. )

SOG

You are correct the 50 Alaskan is based on the 348 Winchester, which in turn was based on the 50-110.

Circular cartridge development.



LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Cross L:
SOG

You are correct the 50 Alaskan is based on the 348 Winchester, which in turn was based on the 50-110.

Circular cartridge development.



LOL

Thanks!
And what was old has become new again.

quote:

Originally posted by kev5000:
Let me try again, don't think my first reply went through,so Michael out of the bullets here I think the 450 swift would be best for my 50 Alaska,right?soft bullet I am talking about

Kev

If it were me, I would use this one...............