Hi

Can anyone provide me with some history on this interesting round? Looking at the ballistics, relatively short OAL, and decent selection of .510 bullets, I'm surprised it isn't more popular with the big bore fans.

Is there any readily available case from which the 500 J can be formed?

Thanks, Todd

Todd,

I have an article on the 500 Jeffrey, but don't recall the history. I believe the original loads were 530 gr @ 2100 fps.

As far as why it isn't more popular, it is a totally unique case, and the brass is $4-5 ea, so, I assume that is the primary reason it isn't more popular. There are several folks building 510/460's, as the brass is $2 a pop. There is also the 500 AHR, which is a 500 Jeffrey with a long neck, and a full dia. rim as opposed to the jeffries rebated rim. The other up side of this round is the brass is $2.25 ea. I would think it would be better with cast bullets due to the long neck, with the Jeffrey, you have to load cast bullets long to keep the neck out of the powder space.

I am having one built, and hopefully will be able to do some testing and report back this fall/winter.

Paul,
Glad to hear about your .500 AHR project in the works! Everytime I run those .500 AHR dummies (that I had Ed Plummer make up for me) through my hands I think that this is the .500 I want. Keep us posted...

Glad to hear that someone else has independently recognized the positive features of this case as well. Is AHR building this one for you?

Jeff Pfeifer

I guess my post was disjointed, I'm having a 500 Jeffrey built, not an AHR, but I suppose having the neck lengthened to use 500 AHR brass would be no problem. Since I will be shooting alot of cast bullets through it, the longer neck may be an advantage, though I can just crimp the bullets in the lube grooves to keep the bullet bases even with the base of the neck, so no real advantage to the AHR. My magazene will be longer then a std 500 Jeffrey to allow longer rounds to be used. I've been planning to get some AHR cases and rebating them, and trimming them back, as a more reasonably priced source of brass.

I do know someone who has a 500 AHR, built by AHR, and he seems to like it. This is what he had to say about it:
>The 500 is doing great, still have not >chronographed loads for it yet. Am at
>127 grains of H4350 under the 535 >Woodleighs. Have some of the 570
>Woodlieghs to checkout yet.

Pfeifer,

I have a friend that has a 500 AHR. I have seen the rifle and the metal work looks good and the it feeds well. I haven't shot it nor has he since it arived here with a broken stock. The stock appears to have been a repair job (at AHR) but cannot be sure. The inletting by the way was not too good if I get one I will either get a barreled action or a composite stock. Anyway, when he gets it back from his stockmaker I will make sure I get to fire a few rounds thorugh it. I'll report back on the performance.

Todd G

By the way, the corect spelling is Jeffery. This round was developed by Schuler as a 12.7 x 70 using the 98 action when all magnum action were reserved for export.

Does the Jeffery have a rebated head (.473) or not? Somewhere, I think "Cartridges of the World," I read that it did, to fit a standard 98 bolt, but an online reference shows a ~.580 head. Or did this get changed at a later date?

Todd

Todd, It is rebated, about .580, depends on the case manufacturer. The cases I have on the bench are .573" rim diameter. Will not fit a standard Mauser bolt face, has to be opened up. I have more info and history, email me if you are interested. Plus I just received a 500J reamer, will be putting three 500J rifles together soon.

I have built several in the past and they are difficult to make feed but it can be done. the rebated rim is a problem you have to work around...

The round is becomming more popular all the time, as thats the latest fad in the gun world and it's been comming steadly for a few years, I suppose because Africa is more affordable than ever..

Why it was not popular is probably recoil....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

The original Schueler and therefore Jeffery loads are 535 gr at 2400 f/s. That is the normal load today also.
If the rebated rim is a problem (which is not for a good gunsmith), you can use a case wihtout the rebated rim. Cases are available in germany, sometimes a period of delivery is needed.

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Well Norbert another gem of wisdom, Now you tell me how keeping a bolt from overriding a rebated rim is so very easy, I said it can be done, but I would like for you to enlighten me on how to make it EASY?????? and tell me in detail...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Yea, I want that gem also. "Nothing Comes Easy" Ringo Starr maybe?

Ah, heard it on the oldies station: "You Know It Don't Come Easy"

[This message has been edited by John Ricks (edited 06-20-2001).]

How to read my posts?
I never said "it is easy to keep the bolt from overriding.."
In contrary I said : it may be a problem!
To solve the problem depends on the action and is well known by Ray, I think.
The purpose of my post was to show, that a not rebated case may be the best solution.

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Well Norbert why didn't you say so (grin) I can agree with that.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Is it difficult to get a 500 jeff to feed?

Harder than getting a 460 wby to feed?

Just for info, the RCBS shellholder for a .500 Jeffery (#37) is the same that is used for the .378 Wby & .416 Rigby.

Ray, I always may have problems with my limited english, especially because I learned only a little Oxford english years ago. Therefore I have additional problems with that american slang sometimes used here in the threads.

But back to the .500 Jeff, I think if one realizes a protrusion of the rim to the bolt as with a standard cartridge, there should be no problem with feeding, provided more pressure to the follower for the extra way up of the bigger cartridge.

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Norbert, I will be building three 500J rifles over the next couple of months, I will post a few details and photos here as I proceed. One on a P-14 Enfield, one on a M98, and the third maybe on a Brno 602 or CZ550. Magazines will be exciting, a lot of work. I will likely make a vertical feed similar to the original Schuler rifles on the M98, and staggered stack on the others. I anticipate a lot of trial and error in getting the magazines and feeding to work properly.

Post your location in your profile, I am always interested in where you chaps are!

I found out Wednesday that Butch Searcy is a few weeks out on my Jeffery and I can tell you boys that I am sporting some serious wood just thinking about getting my hands on it.
Anyway, History that I have shows that the Germans came up with 2400 fps @ 535 grains by using their flake powder. At first, Kynoch offered 2150 fps with cordite, which was later changed to a 2400 fps load.
Warning: Do Not Shoot ANY old German Ammo!
The result may be bad for you and / or the gun.

[This message has been edited by DaveC (edited 06-23-2001).]

I'd certainly be more than content with a 535 gr. bullet at 2100 FPS...for any creature on this earth. I doubt that I would ever use it at its full potential..I have used the 505 at that velocity and it is just devastating on Buff and stuff. the stuff being self.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Norbert,
Do you know if the German ammo was originally loaded with British bullets at first or was it cupro-nickel jackets? I haven't found any details of bullet failure in the Jeffery (Schuler), so I assume it was with British bullets.
By the way, you have a very nice website. Very informative.

To properly handle the 505 and the 500 Jefferys one needs to either widen or make a new one piece magazine, I think Precise is now making a drop box to these specs and the rails need to be widened for the Jefferys so the case will rise a mite more so the bolt can pick it up..That also requires a larger follower and a bigger follower spring...We are talking major expense here, but it will be a valuble gun on completion.....

A good used boxlock double might be a better route, or a already used rifle from Butch Search, He had some nice 50's the last time I saw him...and the price was right.

I'm rebuilding (restoring) a 375 H&H by Holland and Holland and by the time I'm finished, I have a sneaking suspecion, the way things are going, I should have bought one that was in mint condition, and let it go at that...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

A good friend of mine has a .500 Shuler. It is a M98 action cut out a lot. As for a magazine, it has two bands of metal, one of each side of the magazine which serve to hold the cartridges in a single column, not staggered. The magazine holds only two rounds and is a pain to load as the rounds must be slipped under the lips of the metal bands. On occasion, when the bolt is opened to eject a fired round, both rounds in the magazine come flying out. Not the best situation for a dangerous game rifle, unless one doesn't mind a single shot bolt action.

There are at least four methods to solve the magazine/feeding problem with the .500 Jeff.
1.) A very big magazine which reproduces the geometry of the standard cartridge in a staggered column for the bigger Jeffery round.
2.) The original Schueler method, a device pressing the top round aside not to pop out.
3.) Spring loaded symmetrical clips on top of the rails. (Westley-Richards).
4.) Single column; cartridge is hold by the rails. Difficult to load from the top, therefore used with a detachable magazin box.

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