Hi All Y'all.
I wish to know more about Gil Van Horn's lifetime of achievement in big bore wildcatting.

Best I can tell, he is still alive, in his 80's and a desert recluse in California, probably still doing some 'smithing to the accompaniment of Mozart.

He taught Ryan Breeding to build rifles, yes?
You can see the similarity of Breeding's work to some of Gil Van Horn's.

I talked to one of the Huntington gentlemen who is close to Gil, a couple of years ago. He was still alive then.
Is he still?

Where is this book?
The Biography of Gil Van Horn

A picture of Gil Van Horn, only one I have ever found, from Wolfe Pub. article by Bob Hagel, about the .423 Van Horn, a .404 Jeffery improved:



I would like to get info on anything about Gil Van Horn wildcat history.

Did the .585 Van Horn Express predate/inspire the .585 Nyati and .577 Tyrannosaur?

From Dr. Ken Howell's book:

You wants I should go to the desert and commune with the zen master ...?? Bout ready for a road trip.

Most I can tell you on the 585 van horn is gma has a exact copy of it and market it as the 585 gma express also the 460 van horn came out years before the 460 a-square almost the same just different shoulder

Macifej,
A genius like you would be perfect as biographer of Gil Van Horn,
and you are a chip off the old block in your writing abilities.
I'll buy at least two copies of the book, please.

Call Huntingtons, ask if they would help you get an interview with the Master.
He's gotta be nearby to you.
He need's a biography for posterity,
offer him a cut of the profits.

I have a .510 Van Horn and cannot imagine going up to the .585. Gettin soft in my old age I guess.
It is a great rifle and the Huntington smith also well known for his monster handguns was the one that finally worked out the minor problems with feeding. A rail issue I suppose.
I would indeed like to know more about the designer.
Frank

Frank,
You and Macifej: Road trip! To the desert hermitage of Gil Van Horn!

Do you mean you have a .510-caliber ".500 Van Horn Express?"
(Also from Dr. Ken Howell's book

His 585 was forunner of the Nyati w
by couple years and later on
the GMA. When I looked at these back in
the 90s, seeing small shoulder, that is
what gave me idea for making my belted 585
with longer cases.Ed

Great thread, as I find the history behind these big bores interesting as well.

Was there a longer version of the .500 Van Horn Express which has a 2.575" case length? Is there is, any one know the specs?

I would have thought the full size case @ 3.0" would have been on his mind as well with using the Weatherby cases as the basic brass.

FWIW the 500 Van Horn Express has a case capacity of 116gr of water not 166gr as listed. Typo on the print I suspect. 500 Mbogo is listed here on the forums as 152.7 gr of water.

Dane,
Ken Howell's numbers are correct.
That is 166 grains of water for the external volume of the case, a calculated value.
He also gives the weight of the case if was made of solid brass, another calculated value.

This is NOT the "real" internal gross water capacity of the case.
I beleive your 116-grain number would be close on that.

I plan to keep trolling for Gil Van Horn history.
We need that biography and catalog of wildcats.
How many volumes for that?

Will look for more cases and load data in Wolfe Pubs, "The Bible By Howell," and other resources in my library ... which is better than all of the internet.

that 500 looks interesting would there happen to be a print of the reamer in that book

No reamer prints in Dr. Ken Howell's book.

BUT, that 500 Van Horn Express is near identical to the 500 AR by world renowned wildcatter "Jeffeosso The Smith."

Surely the forthcoming books, biography and wildcat catalogs, volumes 1 and 2, will have the list of reamer makers Gil used.

It is hard to pin down any dates on Gil's creations.

Lots of work to be done on the upcoming books.

Test

Guns Annual 1991

The time was possibly mid-1990 , when Sam Fadala wrote the above. The 500 Van Horn Express was in the past. A .585 Van Horn Express was in the works at that time, in Gil's shop.

Ross Seyfried published his big article on the .585 Nyati in the December 1991 Guns & Ammo magazine.

It is hard to pin down these timelines.
Sure hope Gil kept a diary, and will share it with Macifej and Frank, on their road trip interview.

I thought I read he did the 585
a little before the 500. Ed

quote:

Macifej and Frank, on their road trip

You lending us your Amex Black ...??

Amex Black ... is that a new gun finish?

Any Gil Van Horn biographia and techniciana appreciated.
From Dr. Howell's book, one of the more mundane Gil Van Horn wildcats:

I wish someone would manufacture the front sight. I love it!

Ed

Yep, that massively rugged front sight base with the push-down/pop-up front sight blade ... sure beats having a hood to protect the bead.

Retracting the bead when using a scope is a nicety for those who have trouble ignoring the blurry bead in their low-power scope's field of view.

Seems I have seen some Ryan Breeding rifles with similar sights.
Master Jedi Gil "Obi Wan" Van Horn taught apprentice Ryan "Skywalker" Breeding the ways of The Force ...

Looks like it may take someone with the powers of Yoda to locate Obi Wan Van Horn.

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
I thought I read he did the 585
a little before the 500. Ed

Ed,
I believe you! That article was not explicit on when any of the wildcats of Gil Van Horn originated.
For all I know, the .585 Van Horn Express had been out for several years, and the next rifle back at the shop was just the latest one being built.

I have squat for dates of Gil Van Horn creations.

Where's Yoda when you need some psychic powers to remotely view, locate and interview Gil Van Horn?

I do think interviewing Gil Van Horn would be a worth while project. He was easy enough to locate.

Oh really?
Are you sure you have not located the wrong Van Horn again?

You are either teasing us with the truth or telling a big whopper.

Hey, check out that muzzle brake. Now we know where Wayne "Bitteroot" got his X-Brake for the 600OK and 700 AHR!

Gil Van Horn. But as you might have suspected he is a bit of a recluse.

I'll get back to you if I actually do get to meet him in person.

This thread will be like Motel 6 on the Gil Van Horn Road Trip.
We'll leave the light on for ya.

http://www.rbbigbores.com/Projects.html

Look at this 500 Jeffery by Ryan Breeding:
Apprenticed with Gil

Now that' a proper rifle!!

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:


Now that' a proper rifle!!

But it is a 500 Jeffery!!!

Thanks for the replacement 2-bore case for my collection, got it today.
Someday we shall drink a toast over a dead buffalo, with a jigger of Ratzeputz from brass 2-bore "shotglasses."

All Y'all: Any Gil Van Horn sign on the trail?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
http://www.rbbigbores.com/Projects.html

Look at this 500 Jeffery by Ryan Breeding:
Apprenticed with Gil

Now that's purty alright.

Must be an optical illusion, but the shoulder on that cartridge looks too sharp for a 500 Jeffe-ry.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:


Now that' a proper rifle!!

But it is a 500 Jeffery!!!

Thanks for the replacement 2-bore case for my collection, got it today.
Someday we shall drink a toast over a dead buffalo, with a jigger of Ratzeputz from brass 2-bore "shotglasses."

All Y'all: Any Gil Van Horn sign on the trail?

A rebarrel to 500 Mbogo would do. I should probably have some shotglasses made same dimensions as the case. Ahhhh ... Ratzeputz. Few are hardy enough to snort a shot of that elixer.

Either 500 Mbogo or 500 Van Horn Express or 500 AR or 490 Lapua No.1 or No.2, anything but a 500 Jeffery.

That's the difference between the Master and his apprentice.
Gil would do his wildcat instead of a 500 Jeffery!!!

Back to the Gil Van Horn trail:
I found a little sign.
The Wolfe Pub book BIG BORE Rifles and Cartridges
(pp. 321-325) has an article by Bob Hagel about the .460 Van Horn.



Note the date on the drawing by "DJL" is "1975."
Drawing done by scaling a photograph for some of the specs.
Reclusive Gil was not blabbing much even 35 years ago.

It appears the 460 Van Horn dates from circa 1975, or earlier, no later.

We are getting closer to identifying one definite date in the chronology of Gil Van Horn and his cartridges.
Even his date of birth is unknown, but believed to have been about 1930 or earlier.

Ah ha! Above referenced 460 Van Horn article by Bob Hagel was in RIFLE N0.43.
The .375 Van Horn was written about by Hagel a year later, 1976.
That was the second cartridge done by Gil on a shortened "Big Weatherby" belted case.
1975-1976: Vintage of the .375 Van Horn.
The trail is cold, I need some help from a bushman tracker.

.585 Van Horn Express built by Ryan Breeding:




http://www.fieldandstream.com/...lding-big-bore-rifle

Petzal:

"Ryan Breeding learned his craft from a gunmaker named Gil Van Horn, who specialized in big guns during the second half of the last century, and taught him that building a good one meant more than simply clapping a massive barrel into a massive action. The rifle you see here is a .505 Gibbs; 600-grain bullets at 2,350 fps and 93 foot pounds of recoil, which is nearly double the kick of a .458. When you subject a rifle to this kind of strain, terrible things happen to it, and Ryan Breeding goes to considerable pains to prevent them. And he does so with artistry."

A Breeding refinement of the front sight:

Don't get your panties in a bunch VIP, a good hunter has patience.

I was told Van Horn's thoughts on the difference between Ryan's rifles and his mentors is the "art".

30 to 50 years ago big bore, wild cat, bolt guns dominated because ammo was simply unavailable for the old dbls, the Jeffery or the Gibbs. And what was (in old stock and limited supply) could not be reloaded. (Berdan primers and Cordite)

Van Horn and Breeding are still doing the occasional project together. No one (hard to believe, looking around here, I know) builds on a wild cat cartridge if something easier to work with and will do the job is available.

quote:

Originally posted by RDB:
Don't get your panties in a bunch VIP, a good hunter has patience.

VIP?
Thanks, but that is my taxidermist buddy's handle.
I call him Vip for short.
You can call me Rip.
And if you have any info, shoot it in amongst us here! I gotta have some relief!

Yep, while that front site isn't the most aesthetically pleasing it is cool and I like the function. I wonder who built the original.

Red

I am guessing it is a Ryan Breeding Original.
Following leads on the trail of Gil Van Horn:

www.rbbigbores.com

Per Mr. Breeding:

"The Ryan Breeding Rifle
is the culmination of my long association with noted Riflemaker and African Hunter, Gil Van Horn. This combined effort totals over 70 years experience in methods and design innovations, which guarantees the finest and most dependable Safari rifles available today."

RIP? You sure you don't spell that "DICK"

Van Horn is still alive, no question a genius, an on occasion still does a project with Breeding.

Breeding is the direct linage to the Van Horn rifles as Breeding says on his web page. He is also the first guy to give Van Horn much of the credit for his own work. There is 70+ years of big bore rifles and just as important a lot of African hunting experience of DG behind each and every Breeding rifle.

You would be hard pressed to have a similar linage outside of the great British houses of H&H, or Westley Richards. We obviously know what happened with Rigby. But the maker/hunter connection is what I find most important. It shows in the final product imo.

I suspect Breeding's work is one of the ultimate examples of the big bore African bolt gun.

One of my favorites from his web page is this 22" 505 Gibbs.

I may not be a fan of some of his detailing but I know he has a reason for why he does it, which only comes from actually using the rifles as intended.

Dane,
First you call me VIP, then you call me DICK?
What kind of Freudian slip is that?
Whipped out your "D-word," eh?
Better quit playing with that, or you'll go blind!!!
What day was it last week when you learned his name?
I am so happy that I have made you an expert on Gil.
You are funny!
But PROFANE!!!
Totally disrespectful of the subject of this thread!
You need penance (not penis) and forgiveness.

Posted 07-14-2010 10:43 PM Hide Post

quote:
Originally posted by RIP: >
RDB: no >
*************************************************
>Who the heck is David Van Horn,
and what is this bizarre "550 Van Horn" shooting a 50-cal bullet?

RDB: I wondered about the 550 myself

>Gil Van Horn is the master wildcatter who is in his 80's if still kicking, last sighted listening to Mozart in the desert of Kalifornistan.
500 Van Horn Express, .585 Van Horn Express, and many others ... he dates back a half century too.

RDB: Agreed I am BUSTED, and I stand corrected...didn't think David was the guy I origianlly saw in print. Gil was. Just trying to track down the history here nothing more.

>Ken Howell knew John, wrote the article (about Buhmiller), and signed it "Th.D." ... he is a theologian of the wildcatting religion, wrote the bible of that religion. John Buhmiller and Gil Van Horn are saints.

RDB: I knew of Van Horn's work (Gil) and obviously Howell's. Buhmiller was totally new for me. I was into this stuff 10 to 15 years ago, did it, and then forgot about it. I knew the David/Gil thing didn't feel right this morning but thought I had the gold mine. I'll call him back in the morning and get more info.

>... (Memeber ISS) said John (Buhmiller) was working with cylindrical .416 Rigby brass in the 50's to 60's, and did something similar to the 500 Mbogo.

RDB: Interesting as Buhmiller notes lots of different calibers and wild cats in those letters and nothing about a .416 based wild cat. Not trying to argue here but there seems to be a lot of speculation on these cartridges and not many facts for the originators. Just trying to get some facts down in print

>John Buhmiller did the "500 Weatherby" too, before anyone else known of.
John Buhmiller was working on a .423/.378 Weatherby in the 1960's, etc., etc.


RDB: Yes and easily documented as well. But not much actual documentation for the wild cats based on the .416 case that I have seen.

>Dave Estergaard did a 500 Mbogo Dummy in the late 1990s. My cartridge is just that same cartridge, only allowed to grow to 3.000" max, trim to 2.990", instead of the 470 Mbogo max brass of 2.945".

RDB: Thanks for the education! Just a thought, but as you originally suggested. wouldn't we all be better served to call these simply a .505 Rigby and a .510 Rigby The real history of developement imo is long lost on either and still goes back to 1911 and the original .416 Rigby case, 1911 again for the .505 Gibbs, the 500 Jeffery in 1920 and the grand daddy of them all the 500 Nitro from 1880.


Posts: 29 | Registered: 09 July 2010

Well, as we were ...

Guns and Ammo February 1989:
"The .505 ... When Is 'Enough Gun' Too Much?"
By Jack Lott, on page 55:

"Gil Van Horn, that master riflesmith of the high desert, wrote me about a remarkable .505 his protege, Ryan Breeding, manager of the Rifle Shop, Dept. GA, 38458 N. Sierra Highway, Palmdale, CA 93550, was finishing up."

A "High Noon" rifle range meeting soon followed.
That was more than 20 years ago.

Where is Ryan Breeding's shop nowadays? Palmdale, CA?

I believe Ryan is up in Nampa, Idaho now.