I have been working up loads and sighting in rifles for a couple of friends and have run into a problem.

One fellow has an H-S Precision rifle chambered in 375 H&H that wears a 2.5X8 Leupold in Talley rings and bases. I have shot it a LOT over the last couple of years and he has had it to Africa and Alaksa. We have never had a problem with scope slippage, shooting max loads under 300 grain Swift A-Frames.

The other guy has a custom made rifle that was made by Bill Wiseman in Texas. It wears a 1.5X5 power Leupold 30mm with an illuminated reticle. It has the same Talley set up as the other rifle. I have tightened the rings and bases as tight as I dare (probably too tight), but the damned scope keeps slipping in the rings.

The darned thing shoots pretty good until the scope slips, then the groups go to hell. I even dropped to the 270 grain Barnes TSX to try to reduce the recoil. To no avail, the scope keeps moving forward with recoil. The power adjustment ring is now up against the ring.

I intend to call Talley for help, but I am open to suggestions. This rifle is supposed to go to Africa in June, we need to get this fixed!

Clean the scope tube and inside the rings with alcohol or some suitable solvent/degreaser, and then use powdered rosin inside the rings. That usually works for 458 Win Mags that bump scopes around.

Maybe the rings were lapped out too large?
Maybe some QC problem with Leupold making the tube to correct 30mm diameter in this newer scope?

Maybe close enough that some silicone adhesive in the rings (or as Ross Seyfried does, 3M Liquid Electrician's Tape) smeared or brushed onto the insides of the rings before they are tightened.

The excess will squirt out and can be peeled cleanly away after it hardens.

I do this routinely, even with perfectly fitting rings.
It might be sufficient here.
Degrease the rings and scope tube before applying the goo.
I quit the "rosin" powder after I discovered the goo. Goo works much better and seals out any future penetration by stray oil or moisture.

Have you measured the rings and scope tube diameters at the points of interest?

Get the Wheeler Engineering "Fat Wrench" torque wrench screw driver.
Torque the ring screws to 15 to 20 inch pounds.

Thanks for the quick replies, guys.

I have not measured the scope or the rings as of yet. The scope was mounted by the rifle maker, not sure if the rings were lapped at all.

I have the Wheeler torque wrench and will use it when I move the scope back to the original position.

I thought I had the problem solved. I tightened up the rings after I realized the scope was slipping and put a strip of masking tape on the scope next to one ring. I took it out and shot it 15 times and it had not moved at all. However, the owner has been shooting it a lot getting ready for an African trip and it has started slipping again.

I find it odd that the other rifle I have been messing with using Talley rings has NEVER moved whatsoever. But, it is a one inch scope. I would think the 30mm tube would be LESS likely to move, but what do I know?

It is not even my rifle, but this thing is keeping me up nights. The guy is going to Africa in June.

May have to shim it (carefully).
Have y'all tried tightening when the metal is hot? Did that with mine when fire-forming a bunch of brass with light loads on a summer day...

With all my scopes I get them tight as posible in there rings and they do not move. The 375 H&H
416 Rem, and my 458 Lott there are alot more these are my hard kickers. None of mine move.

Or switch to Zee rings.

Ditto on the Zee rings.

Try the Burris Signature Zee rings (weaver style).
They have a plastic bushing that twist inside the steel rings to compensate for the small inaccuracy of alignment of the scope mounting system.
With the bushing offset kit you can get you rifles point of impact mostly centered before you even begin to turn the scopes windage and elevation knobs.
No scope ring lapping required.
No scope ring rash to mar the surface finish of your very expensive scope.
http://www.burrisoptics.com/sigrings.html

The last time I looked at the Burris Zee Rings,
they had a round crossbolt in the bottom of the ring that is supposed to fit in the square cross-slot of the Weaver-style base.
That might be fine and dandy for a 270 or smaller rifle, but still not best.
Not for a heavy kicker.
That is why I never used them before.

Using the silicone adhesive or 3M Liquid Electrician's Tape inside the rings might be done like this for those slightly loose ring:

Apply the adhesive and torque the screws to 10 inch-pounds.
Let it harden and peel off and clean up any visible squirt.
Then finish torquing to 20 inch-pounds.
That scope will stay put in the rings forever, until you wish to disassemble.

Ditto for the 3M product. It is called ScotchKote and can be found at any electrical supply house or on the net. Unlike shims, it will squeeze down to the perfect dimension without compressing the tube and when it cures in a few hours, it utilizes the shear strength of the film between the components to secure the scope. One can will last several lifetimes and if you have to dismount the scope, it comes off easily.

Plain 'ol rubber cement works great too....at least on guns up to 500 Jeff recoil level.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The last time I looked at the Burris Zee Rings,
they had a round crossbolt in the bottom of the ring that is supposed to fit in the square cross-slot of the Weaver-style base.
That might be fine and dandy for a 270 or smaller rifle, but still not best.
Not for a heavy kicker.
That is why I never used them before.

Using the silicone adhesive or 3M Liquid Electrician's Tape inside the rings might be done like this for those slightly loose ring:

Apply the adhesive and torque the screws to 10 inch-pounds.
Let it harden and peel off and clean up any visible squirt.
Then finish torquing to 20 inch-pounds.
That scope will stay put in the rings forever, until you wish to disassemble.

That's true of the Weaver style Zee rings, but if you are worried about slippage the Signature Rings with self centering inserts also come in dual dovetail and Redfield/Leupold styles.

No tape or adhesive and round lugs to boot, I've done quite a bit of shooting with a lightweight 375 H&H, Zee rings, and steel Weaver bases. I still have them on my 338 WM and 7 RM, which kick just fine thanks. Never had any slippage on any of those setups either from shooting or from a fall. Now the H&H certainly won't test scope mounts the way a 458 Lott will, but we are talking about a mount system for an H&H here.

quote:

Originally posted by R Flowers:
This rifle is supposed to go to Africa in June, we need to get this fixed!

Problem solved.



I haven't had one slip yet... Lap the rings, apply a thin coat and wipe off the excess.

If you keep tightening the Talleys, you'll eventually crush your scope.

PS - The JB or other strong epoxy may take the finish off of your scope, but it won't slip. If you ever do take the scope off, epoxy remover will clean up the scope and rings.

I use the J-B Weld routinely between the rifle and the scope base.
Remove with a torch properly applied.

Never had to resort to epoxy inside the scope rings! That would be a last resort, desperation shortcut for me!
But, I might resort to it for replacing that old Waffen Frankonia scope in the German claws ... as a last resort.

Dual dovetails and the old-JR style mounts just never will cut it as QD.
I have broken off those dovetails on hard kickers. Maybe just a defect of metallurgy, but I do not trust them anymore.
They are O.K. on a slick-barreled .375 or smaller gentleman's rifle.

Don't be afraid of the epoxy. It's easy and strong.

It's a thin layer, and all you have to do is "rap" the ring half with a rubber mallet to pop it off the scope.

Apply epoxy remover to the scope and rings, and it wipes off with a rag. No torch required.

I have never had such a problem with Talley rings.

If I did, I would start with non-marring, non-defacing adhesives first.

I wouldn't go with the industrial-strength finish-removers except as a last resort.

A dab of locktite might be in order. When you remove the scope you can clean off the locktight with your fingernail.

I want to thank you guys for your responses, there is a wealth of information on this forum.

I was out of town for a few days and had not had a chance to address this issue. I called Talley yesterday and their customer service is second to none. They recommended swapping out the vertically split rings that are on the gun for rings that are horizontally split and have more screws on them. They were going to ship them out right away.

However, this has turned into a fiasco. I am not a gunsmith, just a guy who likes to tinker with guns. The guy who owns the gun got nervous and took the gun to a local gunsmith. The gunsmith said he would put some adhesive in the rings and remount and boresight the scope.

I do not know what the owner of the rifle will do at this point. I hope he lets me put on the replacement rings that Talley is sending, but we will have to wait and see.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

Get the replacement rings and use the adhesive.

Permatex RTV Silicone sealant, clear or black, or
3M Liquid Electrician's Tape, ala Seyfried.

I am glad to hear that Talley is making horizontally split rings now. I want to see some of those! Just like Leupold QRW.

a little valve grinding compound wiped in the rings before screwing em down has just enough grit in it to hold a 460 weatherby heavy --steady as she goes

learned that trick a few years back from the old man talley his self

Check to make sure the front and rear rings are actually on a common axis. I seen several cases where the scope slipped due to this problem. The worst I saw was a .020 difference in the height of the front and rear rings. The rear holes in the receiver were also off set both in angle and horizontal. The solution in that case was a new base that was machined in place on the receiver, and indexed off the front ring.

I would first tighten to manufacturers specs. Once you are able to measure torque you will sometimes be surtprised to see that you can tighten more than you thought. If everything lines up and is the right diameter you should be okay. If not there is a lot of other good advice here.

Four year old thread?

I wonder what the outcome was for the OP.