I finally got my dies, and am ready this weekend to undertake reloading for my Ruger No. 1 450-400. This is my first time reloading this caliber and I was curious if anyone has developed any particularly good loads for 400 grain solids. Also, any quirky issues of which I should be aware for reloading this caliber? thanks, in advance for your advise.

I built a Ruger No. 3 using a Krieger .411" barrel and have done extensive load development. I tried using a medium burning powder (RL15 or VARGET) with a filler and was not pleased with the results. However, results with H4831 and similar powders were excellent. Working with a chronograph, I increased powder charges until the extreme velocity spread was quite low & vertical stringing was eliminated. Better loads averaged about 1" with Woodleighs, Swift A-Frames, and Barnes solids. Velocity was about 2250 fps, which exceeds the original ballistics. I would be cautious about using these loads in an older double rifle. Loaded at this level, case heads did not expand at all & fired cases dropped effortlessly from the chamber when the muzzle was elevated. Exact charge weights varied with bullet type & were greater than 90 grains of powder. If using H4831, I'd recommend starting around 88 grains and working up. A chronograph is a valuable asset in this type of load development.

Roger

I reload for a Heym DR 450-400 3",the powder of choice for me is also H4831,I did call Hornady on this because I was using Hornady bullets soft & solids,I am not close to my notes right now but I do think it was 81.5 grains for 2050 fps in my gun,as previously stated a chronograph is a valuable asset for sure.

I have a Krieghoff and a Ruger #1; I use 74 grains of IMR4350 because it is the only thing that regulates in my DR; shooting 3/4 inch groups. 4831 did not work in it at any load level; it spread too much due to the recoil/long barrel time.
I use Hornady 400 grain bullets.
I have also built rifles for the 450-400; I use only .410 Douglas barrels (that is what the bullets are), and they shoot great with this load, which is not a super fast load; 2050 FPS. Which is about the original velocity.
Actually I built a couple on Mausers; using 404 Jeffery brass and size them in the 450-400 dies and using .410 bullets. Best of both worlds since I hate the original Jeffery bore diameter.

WRT the standard load velocity.
Hornady labels their 450/400 ammo at 2050 fps.

That happen to be the velocity of my hand loaded 400 grain Woodleigh ammo for my Winchester 1895 .405 WCF.
It works:

In my #1 I used H4831SC and reached ~2050 fps @ 82.2 gr with the 400 gr. DGX Bonded.

I've managed to collect some Weldcores but not yet loaded for them.

Like Ray Atkinson who posts here, I too have found IMR4831 one of the best powders for the 404 Jeffery and think this would probably be a good powder for the 450/400 as well. I load to original 404 velocity levels only because that duplicated my early factory ammo (Parker Hale and Kynoch both at 2,200fps thereabouts) point of impact.

My load with the 400gr RWS solid in my 404 is 85.0gr IMR4831. The 404 can be loaded with up to 95.0grs of this powder but I didn't bother going above my level as it is up to factory POI, gives excellent case life, easy on the shoulder and knocks buffalo over no problem.

In the Ruger No. 1 you should be able to duplicate any 404 load in the 450-400.

I second the support for IMR 4831. It has been the best of all powders I have tried in my .450-400 3" Harrison and Hussey box lock ejector. My rifle uses 80 grains as it was regulated for 55 grains of cordite. In other .450-400s regualted for 60 grains, I use 83 grains of IMR 4831. Been doing so since the 1990s.
Cal

With every 450-400-3" I used H4831 with the 80 gr, load and 82 grs of IMR4831 depending on which rifle I was loading for. and one regulated at a 2125 fps. The other gun it went 2155 to regulation..

In my bolt action 404s they all got close to max at 95 grs and it was a very accurate ass kicking load, so eventually in each case I backed off to 93 grs and that was my magic load in each case..Woodleighs, GS Customs and Northforks were my chosen bullets..It shot everything to my 3" high at 100 and into very small groups that overlapped..

Thank you, all, for your generous input. I have a very interesting weekend ahead of me trying out your suggestions. This is why I love AR.

Additionaly in a Ruger #1, you have a lot more room to play with in that stronger action,and probably a couple of inches of barrel, but that said, I doubt that the additional MV will change its killing effect on game enough to notice..

Cal, Ray, etal:
I just re read this thread and cannot refrain from making the following comment on rifle and powder:
1. My Winchester 1895 .405 WCF with 24 inch barrel achieved 2076 fps MV with 54 grains of TAC and a peak chamber pressure of 48,914 psi. This was very accurate and deadly.

I later used a few grains less of N133 and achieved the same velocity with less than 40,000 psi and use that load in my Simson .405 DR.

I now use N133 for other rifles such as .45-70, .45-90 in my 1886 and my Beretta .45-90 DR and my 1895 .405.

PS I verified the chamber pressure with the Pressure Trace II system.

450/400 = RL15 = less recoil than 4831

Butch Searcy regulated my Searcy 450-400 to shoot to point of aim with 76.4 grains of IMR 4831 and 400 grain bullets. Damn accurate rifle!

I question the necessity to use a filler when using R 15.

I used a filler 5 grs of dacron with RL-15 and 4350, it seemed to work fine, one way or the other, with the Fed 215 I suspect there is no real need, but hey it can't hurt. I tried it on the targets and It was the same in mine again either way. Try it in your gun and see if it improves anything,In some cases it does..I weigh and shoot the dacrow until it blows out the barrel in a plug..

I have used a reduced load of 63.0grs H4350 shooting cast bullets to 1800fps in my 404 but noticed without a filler I experienced a very slight delayed ignition. Another 404 owner using the same bullet and load in a custom 404 did not need to use a filler.
My 404 has a long leade or freebore, supposedly chambered that way for using the early monometal bullets, and I'm sure this long leade allowing bullet jump was what was causing delayed ignition. A wool filler cured the problem, so as Ray has said, try RL-15 with and without filler and see how it goes in your rifle.

71 gr. of R 15 takes up much less room in the case than 82 of 4831 and, imo, a filler is cheap insurance. Using the Kynoch foam wads or foam backer rod just keeps everything properly located. Damaging a set of barrels and spending 12-15k for a new set just hurts my feelings. The use of foam makes the job less tedious than Dacron. I always noticed the barrels on my 450/400j heated up quicker and further out using the slower burning 4831, but with a bit of load work mine shot loads with either well.

When Michael McCourry tested loads in big-bore double-rifle cartridges with barrel strain gauges for pressure…he found filler, especially dacron, to put mid-wave spikes in the pressure wave. Remove them and they went away. He saw no untoward events when they were left out. Kyoch foam or foam backer rod effected the pressure wave the least.

I load 86 grs of R 15 under 450 gr Woodleighs in my .500 NE for practice loads. Always put in foam until I saw the tracings of the pressure wave with and without. Now…I leave it out. Shooting them…I can’t tell any difference. The bottom line though was filler was not totally benign. Foam was the most benign however.

In later years, I found the foam plugs for sale at SCI Dallas from Britten as I recall, bought a ton of them as they were time saving over Dacron, Lots of varibles with such items that receive pro and cons by experts..My recomendation is best to try them and see how they work for you and let the experts impress each other!! To correct a misconception I only used fillerw in my 450-400s both 3" and 3.25" Never in my 404 Jefferys rifles..

I didn't play with jacketed bullet loads for mine when I had it, but I did load 320 & 400gr cast bullets with it. Used AA5744 with both, got the loads off Western powders. Got 2050 from the 320, only ran the 400 up to 1880, still had room to go on powder chg, but, that was comfortable. max chg was somwhere over 50gr, I didn't use a filler, no issues with it.

My Merkel 140AE .450-400 3" likes when I load it with IMR4831 the best, followed by H4831, and H1000. I haven't had very good success with RL15 and filler but it is generally recommended in this cartridge. Always 400 gr. bullets, Hornady DGXB and Woodleigh.

What is the parent case for this cartridge?

450 Nitro; hence the name.
You guys who are using 4831 are just increasing recoil.
Talking about single shots; not DRs here.
You don't need a filler with 74 grains of 4350. Or RL15.

Ive used both 4831s and you can get a bit more velocity with it and less pressure. Its been the powder of choice for many years, so its a viable option for Petes sake...most just don't use enough of it in a case...Also great in the 404 Jefferys, but RL-15 is a great powder and less felt recoil Im told but never noticed that..I work up one load in a double and thats the one I use, chosen strictly based on accuracy and POI, and must work with soft or solid..If I want to play with a caliber it will be with a bolt gun. The double for me is for DG..

I use IMR-4831 in my Ruger #1 as well. Just for grins and giggles I loaded almost a case full of Trail Boss under the Lyman, 410 grain, .410 cast bullet. Fun round that duplicated the ballistics of my Shiloh Sharps in 40-70, about 1200 fps....and that load has killed a bunch of deer.

quote:

Originally posted by sharps4590:
I use IMR-4831 in my Ruger #1 as well. Just for grins and giggles I loaded almost a case full of Trail Boss under the Lyman, 410 grain, .410 cast bullet. Fun round that duplicated the ballistics of my Shiloh Sharps in 40-70, about 1200 fps....and that load has killed a bunch of deer.

I will have to try something like that in mine. The 450/400 also offers the opportunity to do some fun planking with 41 mag pistol bullets.

In 404J, what about using 5744 (without filler) to get a 400grn bullet to Jeffrey’s original velocity specs? 2000-2050fps?

quote:

Originally posted by A.J.2:
In 404J, what about using 5744 (without filler) to get a 400grn bullet to Jeffrey’s original velocity specs? 2000-2050fps?

A.J.2

Would that be the same person as the former AJ Hydell nom de plume? Same "All the Best ..." sign off.

I used som of that for reduced loads in my 450-400-3" and 3.25" vel. about 1500 fps with lead and jacketed bullets as I recall. been a long time ago..Probably easier today to just use a reduced load of most accepted caliber powders?????

5744 is made for reduced loads in big cases without filler. Not the same as just reducing medium/slow burn rate powders.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
5744 is made for reduced loads in big cases without filler. Not the same as just reducing medium/slow burn rate powders.

I have been using 5744 for 400 grain lead practice loads in my 404J. Range from 35 gr. to 50 grains with no filler. 35 grns produces 1600fps in my rifle. According to Hodgdon techs, 50 grns will produce about 2050 fps. Using CCI 250 primers in Norma and RWS cases.

I would not reduce other powders below listed minimum loads.

I never liked reduced loads, I found in my case that I needed to use full loads for all my shooting to keep me tuned up for recoil, long stretches of not shooting heavy recoiling guns tends to reduce my recoil tolerance to one degree or another such as over the long winters in Idaho and I have to tune the old body up in the spring to my 400s and up..Not age related btw as its always been like that, I just didn't realize for some time..