My ship is finally coming in, and I went shopping.

Things I like. Interarms Mark X, almost plastic stock, that matches my Mark X 06, and weighs about the same, 700 bucks.

A beautiful Walnut stocked browning 458 win mag,
with double cross bolts: 900 dollars.

I could buy a new CZ 550 458 for 710 from the same guys. Both the first two have express sites, and short barrels, like 22-24". They are both light, with really old, junk recoil pads, but nice stocks.

Anyone know if the 458 CZ stocks brake?

Which would you pick???

Goal is a 458 Lott, or ackley.

s

[ 12-11-2002, 07:52: Message edited by: Socrates ]

The Browning is by far the best rifle. Right up there with the coveted Pre-64 Win. If I wanted a Lott I don't think this is the rifle I would want to mess with.

HMMM. Thanks.

The stock is very high quality walnut, and it looks really nice. It's just soooooo, light.


I guess you bring up a real good question:

Is the 458 Win mag, with current factory ammo, sufficent for most anything in the world?

Ray, where are you when I need you???

s

[ 12-11-2002, 08:31: Message edited by: Socrates ]

You WILL NOT beat the Browning Safari Grade for quality and accuracy right out of the box.That's a good buy if it's not a salt wood gun.Mint condition they go for $1200 in push feed model,$1300-$1500 for a CRF model.

Let us know which one you get.

Brian.

PS-I have a Safari 458.It's one of my favorites.

As far as factory ammo goes Larry at Superior ammo says that with current powders he can make the 458 sing. Don't expect miracles but 2100fps should be easy. A lot of the factory stuff is more like 1900fps.

Can you get ammo shipped to Greece or are you only there temporarily?

As far as the weight goes please remember that you'll carry the gun way more than shoot. Plus those old Brownings are real Cadillacs. Just put a Decelerator or some quality pad on it. Enjoy!!

I'd really like to have and old Brownig 458 myself.

Socrates,
The Interams Mark X was sold as a Zastava in Australia. I bought one back in the early 90's with a Ramline stock. If that's the 'almost plastic' stock your speaking about then they break unless fitted properly. I split mine at the tang and infront of the magazine. When I took it off I noticed that the screws holding the action into the stock has approximately 8mm pillars in 10mm holes. I replaced it with a Butler Creek stock and had it bedded and have had no problems since. The trigger is pretty creepy but okay otherwise for what is a cheap magnum. Interestingly, I lopped the barrel back to 22" and it chronographed exactly the same as my CZ550 with longer barrel did. My CZ550 lasted less than 20 rounds as a 458WM. They don't feed reliably in my (or others!) experience, especially with Winchester 510gr softs. After two unsuccessful trips to the gunsmith to get it feeding (under warranty), I bit the bullet and converted it to a Lott. The CZ550 is much more comfortable to shoot in my opinion due to the heavier weight in comparison to the Interarms. Do CZ550 stock break? I think they all do unless reinforced and fitted properly.
Cheers...
Con

This is an OLD rifle. The recoil pad is rock hard, the gun is double bolted already, and it has express sites, with a light barrel.

I might just sell my 375, and just have one caliber to reload for, 45, 458.

It looks like reaming it out to a Lott wouldn't be a big deal, and, I SHOOT my rifles, they don't collect dust, or sit in a gun safe.

I have to get down and look at it again. Price is right, and the only thing spooking me is the weight.

And yes, I punch a lott of paper

Plus I'm getting old, and need big holes to see how I'm shooting with open sites...

s

Con:
My CZ 550 went to the gunsmith, new, before it went to the range.

That one is 375 H&H.

He said most big guns break stocks, because after being made, they tend to sit on shelves, or in warehouses, for long periods of time. This gives the stock a chance to shrink, warp whatever.

Result is play that the bigger calibers use to break their stocks with.

My Interarms Mark X was bought over 35 years ago, and just got a new stock, scope, bedding, etc.
That's a 30-06.

If the Mark X's are cheap, and I think you are suggesting quality, then I think I'll pass.

The CZ's have a lot of rough strength, and weight, in their action. I like that in a 458.

The Browning I'm going to have to look at again.

The stock alone, and double bolting maybe worth the 200 bucks more then a CZ. It would then require a serious recoil pad, and mercury reducers, and trip to the gunsmith. At his rate of speed, it should be ready...

Anyway, it has a short barrel, and, if it won't shoot, I can always rebarrel to a longer, like 26 inch barrel, with a very high quality barrel.

I'm a large bullet, heavy, lower velocity type myself, because I don't like high case pressures.

I don't know. Have to call on a Model 97 Freedom Arms tomorrow, as well...

It's amazing that for the longest time, no options. Now, a bunch of stuff I'm thinking about is just there...
s

Socrates,
Sorry, I should clarify that the Mark Xs (Zastava) when sold here were really cheap 458's. I bought mine for just under A$600 when ZKK602's were nearing A$1000. I bought it as a light big bore and enjoyed shooting it with 350gr Hornadys at close to 2470fps. Now, imported projectiles are priced higher than local Woodleigh's so I'm loading 480gr Woodleighs to 2065fps. It consistently shoots into 1.5MOA with a A$69 Tasco 4X32 of the same vintage as the gun. It was a cheap shooting rig for a just out of Uni student!
Quality and finish wise I think they were better than the older 602s, but if you wanted to put money into a gun or build a bigger stick then the ZKK came up trumps. Good luck with whatever you choose!!
Cheers...
Con

Socrates,
The only problem with the Safari 458s is that they crack their stocks sometimes.This is solved by shipping the gun to Jack Belk in Montana with a hundred dollar bill.When it gets back it'll never crack.That's where mines going after Christmas.

The Browning 458 is light as Browning used their standard 300 magnum contour barrel on it.The barrel is insanely light.I've had four of these monsters.My current one,with scope weights 9 pounds on the nose.The lightest weight 6 3/4 pounds.Recoil with 510 grain factory loads made a 460 Weatherby look like a cap gun.

You DO NOT,repeat DO NOT want to have it rechambered to 458 Lott.The Safari 458 is built on a standard length Mauser 30/06 action.It would take extensive work to open it up to Lott.It's a tight fit for the Winny to start with.Also-you won't be able to take all that many 458s from it off the bench,let alone Lotts.I'm pretty hardy when it comes to recoil and 15 from mine and I'm done for the day.

Make sure it's not a salt wood gun.Pull the barreled action out of the stock.If there's ANY rust or pitting,run away as fast as you can.

Brian.

BTW,here's a picture of mine.Front sight got cut off in the picture.That's a rather plain peice of French it's wearing.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/56259045/56261248sgVAYu

Brian.

Socrates,

I personally would opt for the CZ in .458 and then ream it to the lott.

How-ever I would not under any circumstance sell your .375. If you go to Africa you would have an excellent pair of rifles in .375 & .458 lott.

Also another bloke on this forum shot some big game using the the Barnes X 230 gr .375 (I think) and it would make a really flat shooting rig with this bullet.

In all honesty your .375 could take the role of your 30/06 if you load lighter bullets.

By the way I listened to your advice and am buying the CZ .375 I am a little over half way in paying for it.

PC.

If you plan to rechamber to Lott or Ackley, better go with the longer CZ.

Brian, I was thinking of putting a 4x leupold on my 458 too.

500,

would the 4x leupold take the punishment ?? I would have thought you would have went for the 2.5x compact on your .458 ??

500grains,
I like it on mine.Plenty eye releif.I have several fixed 4xs on everything from 22s on up to my 458.The longest shot I ever made on game was with a Leupold 4x ontop of a German made 300 Weatherby.I won't say how far it was as you wouldn't belive me.It would have been a hard shot even with a 20x scope.

PC,
My father had a 4x Leupold on his 460 Weatherby (with crapola Pendelton brake),for years.It lived through several hundred rounds of hot 500 and 350 grain loads.

Brian.

Sox's,
Im right here, just a little slow these days....

If the Browning has the long extractor then get it, the price is right for the US market and thats for sure...It is nothing more than an FN for the most part, and thats all good...

Put a nice old 3x Leupold on it in Talley rings and bases and your in business...The weight is OK.

Socrates- If the Browning isn't a salt wood gun ( check it out) then go for it. The non-salt wood ones are REAL NICE. Better in many ways than a pre-64 win. in my book. Ray's right, it's really just an FN mauser. You can get off the shelf bottom metal for a Lott/Ackley that bolts right in. It's then just a simple rechamber job to the cannon of your dreams. -Rob

The real advantage of the CZ is the ability to rechamber it for one of the really big case .450's like the Dakota or the Rigby. If the Browning is a salt wood gun, then the Mark X is plenty long enough for a Lott. Frankly, I think that for someone who punches a lot of paper, heavier is better. My rifles are no lightweights and I prefer to shot them off sticks so that I can absorb the recoil better than I can off the bench. Have fun whichever project you get started on. IMO all of them need a safety rework.

Guys: Thanks. What is a "salt wood gun?"

Guy at the shop isn't going to let me unbolt the double cross bolted stock to check for rust.

Still, if the stock is any indication, the Browning may just be too sweet to pass up.

It would need a new pad, mercury recoil reducers,]and the barrel is too short to put a decent brake on.

Bought a tree tonight, and, the mail, and check are late...

s

By the way, I've always had a ton of respect for Belgium FN's. If it wasn't for a couple match grade M1A/M14's, I might have bought an FN/FAL.

I did buy two browning hi-powers, both belgium made FN's, and while not the most accurate of guns, compared to the match grade 45's I was shooting, the worksmanship was fantastic, and they were truly works of art. Likewise this browning. It looks like a 2500 dollar rifle, not 900 bucks.

s

Socrates,
Taking it out of the stock isn't difficult just because it has two cross bolts in it.The cross bolts are in the stock,not the barreled action.You just remove the floorplate screws and the forearm screw and lift it out just like any other bolt action rifle.

A "salt wood gun" is in reference to a dumb ass stunt Browning pulled from 1967 through 1974.They cured the wood with salt.Figure out what happens then!Also-don't say "oh,it's a pre-67,it can't be a salt gun!",because I had a 1965 gun that was a salt gun,and have seen many other pre-salt wood era guns so stocked.Why?They were sent back for stock repair and the stocks were replaced with salt wood.Happened a lot.

Go back and tell the gun shop owner that you must take the barreled action out.Tell him he can do it himself if he'll let you look at the underside of it.If he says no,then it's most definetly a salt gun and he's keeping it a secret.Walk away.

Brian.

Thanks Brian, Ray, and PC.

I have to be real careful about this, cause I like the guy that owns the store, and, if I decide to get a 458 CZ, it's likely he would be the one I would get it through.

Let's see. My urge to sell the 375 is due to having to reload for both that and the 458's. One bullet size, one world.

PC, while you have a point about africa, the 375 can't take the place of the 30-06, for one, very big, and large reason. Mil calibers mean huge quanities of ammo, at cheap prices. Cheaper even then reloading, often. 223, 308, 30-06, and I suspect the AK 47 30 caliber are all avaliable in large quanity, cheaper then you can reload em.
Practice makes perfect.

And, less I forget the flinch solver, 22 lr.

By the way, what's the mag capacity of the 458 Win mag in the Browning, and the CZ?

Just got the first check, and, the end of the month is going to be shopping time...

Thanks again for the help, all.

s

Socrates,
The Browning 458 will take three in the magazine and one up the tube.If you can't get it done with four 500 grain bullets going 2100 FPS,you must be doing something wrong!

BTW,I can't understand why you keep refering to the barrel as being "short".It's a 24 inch barrel-a perfect length for a 458,espically if your in the timber or the jungle.

At least that's what Elmer thought about it.

Brian.

Soc,

the CZ in .458 win mag will hold 5 down, and will also do this when coverted to a lott. So you have 5 in the mag and one up the spout for 6 shots total. For me thats the attraction of the lott over the say the .450 rigby and the bigger .458 catridges. The lott seems to do everything one would want any way. Bit easier to I think if you want to shoot lighter cheap 45/70 bullets.

If you feel you need to sell your .375 go ahead, but down the track you may regret it. And cheap ammo aside I really feel the .375 is much more versatile round than the 30/06. For larger plains game I think the .375 would be a much better proposition than the 30/06. At the end of the day the money you would get for your .375 will not make that much difference to your budget long term.

But then again I just love to own a lot of different calibres so thats my bias shining through. Soc don't you just love the thrill and excitment about "the new gun purchase" which gun/calibre mounts/scope etc.....

PC:
For me each purchase is a pain. I research the heck out of it, check with everybody, get their opinion, and then try to ask myself, am I making another mistake, where I loose money, selling something for a loss, that I shouldn't have bought in the first place?

From the beggining I was given the best of the best to decide what I wanted to buy.

Colt Gold cup 45. M1A and M14 that drove tacks, with open sites, at 100 yards. Match grade M 16's, just in case we are invaded by woodchucks etc.

I went out and bought a bunch of very nice 380, 9, 44 special, 45 macs, etc. and ended up selling them, or destroying them with hot reloads. Perhaps not at that much of a loss, but, what a waste of time.

You really only need 45 acp, 45 colt, 22 lr, in both pistol and rifle, what ever military caliber you like a rifle in, and, the boomers.

I like the KISS principal. Cuts down expense, and the more you practice, the better you get.

I will admit that the 375 is a GREAT, all around cartridge. I agree with you, and that's why I bought one.

However, for my own use, I would rather have one, 458 lott, or better, ackley, with muzzle brake, recoil reducers, and, a huge mag, and just use that.

On the other hand, I could grab the Safari browning(who can turn down FN belguim quality?)
and, just use it as a 458 win mag? I could buy a Lott, or, just change the CZ over, to a lott, and, if I was hunting somewhere in brush, take the 458, and the Lott whenever.

I could easily rationalize two 458's. Same reloading dies for both.

Both rifles would cost about the same as a FA 22 with two or three cylinders.

The rifles are cheaper then a Valtro 45 acp...
etc.


gs

[ 12-14-2002, 11:30: Message edited by: Socrates ]

Socs,

keeping your .375 and converting that to the lott and having your belgium .458 sounds like a better plan than off-loading a firearm all-together mate. I feel one day the big cz's maybe a prized actions as quality gets harder to come by.

Thanks PC.

You've made a very good point, that eluded me in my Christmas madness...

Socrates- You and I need to go to a gun show in SF or Sacto and buy something that will end your self- flagellation once and for all. You can then keep your .375 and build the 458 lott of your dreams. It's only a Pre-64 win LA or Cz550 mag action away!-Rob

Your on Rob. I know Antioch has a show the 28th, and 29th, IIRC, and the Cow Palace show comes up soon. Febuary?

I have broncitis, so I had to go to the doctor's to get a perscription, so one I could sleep, and two to knock it out.

On the way back, I had a good look at the two rifles. The 458 Safari is very nice, but, at 950, will require mercury reducers, perhaps a trigger job, a new Pach, or Kickeze pad, and, it doesn't look good for the stock being strong enough, or, for that matter, I wonder about the chamber, for a Lott.

Guys suggested just buying a Ruger 77, in 458 Lott, and going with that.

The interarms looked nice, but, at 700 bucks, if shot a lott, probably would need restocking.

Nice, but not quite the right rifle, for the right price.

This guy finds most of his stuff at gun shows, so, after the first, that maybe the best way to go.

Rob, let me know when you want to go, and your on.

s