Could someone tell me if the Kynoch ammo, from say '50s vintage, was Boxer or Berdan primed.
Thanks

I am pretty sure they were Berdan primers. Graeme Wright's book mentions all the tricks used to modify old brass in the 70s and early 80s.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum Hunter1:
Could someone tell me if the Kynoch ammo, from say '50s vintage, was Boxer or Berdan primed.
Thanks

The 404 ammo I have appears to boxer primed.

The Kynoch ammunition I have to hand for my 404 Jeffery is dated 1963 and is Berdan primed so I imagine most '50s vintage Kynoch ammo is likely Berdan primed.

The .217" Berdan primer size was apparently pretty standard for many of the nitro express cartridges loaded by Kynoch and with standard large rifle Boxer primers at .210" diameter even this small difference can be seen visually or by carefully measuring the primer pockets exposed above seated primers.

For the benefit of your enquiry I have just done so on my Berdan and Boxer primed 404 ammo. Side by side I can see the difference in diameters of the two different primers and can confirm by measure with calipers.

I have Berdan primers and reload my Kynoch cases, made a small pin decapper and the slightly larger Berdan primers seat perfectly using the standard LR primer seater on my press (can't use the auto primer feed though). When shooting cast bullets I seem to get slightly improved accuracy with Berdan primed cases than Boxer primed although different brand cases of course so maybe nothing to do with the primers.

I wonder if that is the new Kynamco make from 1980s or so. Graeme Wright mentions them in his gook on shooting double rifles and has worked with the factory on pressure test etc.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
The 404 ammo I have appears to boxer primed.

Graeme Wright even made modifications in the cases to use shotgun primers.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum Hunter1:
Could someone tell me if the Kynoch ammo, from say '50s vintage, was Boxer or Berdan primed.
Thanks

MH1 do you have the Kynoch ammo to hand or thinking of purchasing some? From your question I am thinking you have the opportunity to purchase some and I have the information on dating Kynoch ammunition if you need it to confirm the true day/month/year of manufacture.

Apart from the type of primer the ammunition may have, one issue to be aware of if purchasing old Kynoch ammunition is that you can get case neck splits on firing the factory ammo. If you are lucky and the necks do not split then annealing the once fired cases will solve this issue.

eagle27,
You are correct. I might buy some older ammo and was wondering if it might be reloadable.
Thanks for the info. If I get it, I may contact you for more info if that's OK.

PM me if you want any info that I may be able to help you with.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum Hunter1:
eagle27,
You are correct. I might buy some older ammo and was wondering if it might be reloadable.
Thanks for the info. If I get it, I may contact you for more info if that's OK.

Any of the Kynoch Berdan primed cases are reloadable......with a couple of caveats:
1) you need to obtain or make a tool to deprime (can be as simple as an ice pick or sharpened nail and a hole in a block of wood) & pry them out. RCBS used to make, and maybe still offers, a Berdan depriming tool.
2) For those of us in the USA, unless you find them at an estate sale, there is no source for proper “Nitro Berdan” .254” diameter & .133” tall non-corrosive RWS 6507 Berdan primers, Kynoch/Eley #172, or the much older obsolete corrosive Kynoch #40 that are meant for the big nitro express cases.

quote:

Originally posted by Redstone:

quote:

Originally posted by Magnum Hunter1:
eagle27,
You are correct. I might buy some older ammo and was wondering if it might be reloadable.
Thanks for the info. If I get it, I may contact you for more info if that's OK.

Any of the Kynoch Berdan primed cases are reloadable......with a couple of caveats:
1) you need to obtain or make a tool to deprime (can be as simple as an ice pick or sharpened nail and a hole in a block of wood) & pry them out. RCBS used to make, and maybe still offers, a Berdan depriming tool.
2) For those of us in the USA, unless you find them at an estate sale, there is no source for proper “Nitro Berdan” .254” diameter & .133” tall non-corrosive RWS 6507 Berdan primers, Kynoch/Eley #172, or the much older obsolete corrosive Kynoch #40 that are meant for the big nitro express cases.

The RCBS Berdan primer decapping tool #9525 is still made, costs us in NZ$170.
Problem with this type of decapper is that it is easy to damage the anvil inside the case primer pocket. I just made up a two diameter decapping pin from a piece of spring steel rod,the larger end is gripped in a standard RCBS decapper stem and the smaller end fits into one of the small flash holes in a Berdan primer pocket. Have to locate one of the twin flash holes and insert the small pin on the end of the decapper rod then put the case and rod into a shell holder and raise the press ram with no die in the reloading press, give the decapper stem a rap with a small hammer and out pops a spent Berdan primer. Works everytime even on factory primers sealed in the primer pocket with shellac, e.g. Kynoch and others.

Berdan primer decapper rod and steel rod from which two diameter decapping pin was made.


Berdan primers easily available here, the .217"/5.5mm the most common in a couple of depths but the .254" Berdan used in the old 303 British cartridge among others also available here too.

RWS 5.5mm x 2.80mm


RWS 5.5mm x 2.65mm

I agree on the RCBS decapper. I've managed to knarf up anvils and rims with that thing but once you get a feel for it it works pretty good.
I've seen described a method of filling the case to the neck with water and then using a well fit dowel and mallet to pop the spent primer with water pressure. I should try it - if it works it would be less tedious although a messy method.

Also, the conversion to shotgun primers is good but really only for black powder express cartridges.
Another option is to mill out the anvil, drill a center flash hole and sleeve the primer pocket to accept regular large rifle primers.
It's a bit of lathe work but at least its another option.

quote:

Originally posted by Huvius:
I agree on the RCBS decapper. I've managed to knarf up anvils and rims with that thing but once you get a feel for it it works pretty good.
I've seen described a method of filling the case to the neck with water and then using a well fit dowel and mallet to pop the spent primer with water pressure. I should try it - if it works it would be less tedious although a messy method.

Also, the conversion to shotgun primers is good but really only for black powder express cartridges.
Another option is to mill out the anvil, drill a center flash hole and sleeve the primer pocket to accept regular large rifle primers.
It's a bit of lathe work but at least its another option.

With nothing better to do I made up a hydraulic deprimer for berdan primers as you describe, it works but bloody messy and then cases are all wet needing drying out thoroughly before carrying on reloading.

Article in an old Handloader Digest I have showing and explaining the method of peening the berdan anvil flat, drilling a central flash hole and then sleeving the primer pocket to .210" for standard LR boxer primers. Was done by an Aussie hunter on some 450/400 3" cases back in the days where new cases and berdan primers were unobtainable in the land of Oz. If I recall correctly he actually managed to find some brass tube of the correct inside and outside dimension that only required cutting to length to fit his berdan primer pockets. Having to turn brass tube to correct dimension would be a right PITA considering the the wall thickness of the tube would only be in thousands of an inch.

Not hard to get berdan primers out, it is just finding new stock that seems the problem for some. Some actually drill the twin flash holes to a slightly larger size so that common drill stems can be used as depriming pins. Apparently you cannot go too big though.

All vintage kynoch ammo was berdan primed.

quote:

Could someone tell me if the Kynoch ammo, from say '50s vintage, was Boxer or Berdan primed.

Here's a Brit's input.

Kynoch at the very end of it being supposedly "Made in Britain" is wrong. Some of it wasn't.

So there is in fact ammunition, from Eley-Kynoch, being delivered out of the factory gates at Witton in Birmingham, that was in fact Swedish.

Yes. Swedish. Made by Norma and, yes, with Boxer primers. This isn't today's Kynamco but genuine Eley-Kynoch.

It will often say "Made in England from Swedish Components". So certainly I've seen .240 Apex with Boxer primers and similar.

Hope it helps.

Hmmmmm,
I wonder what the ID of that brass tubing is they use for knife making. They make it in .250 OD. Maybe the wall thickness is .020. If so, that would work to bush the .210 Large Rifle primers like we use.
Anyone have some laying around? Even if it was too thick, one might be able to chuck some short pieces in a lathe and ream the inside.