Sometime last year I bought from somewhere online some new .470 brass. It was advertised as being "Bell" brass, but it says it was made by Rigby on the ones I received. Nevertheless, I really do like it and find it seems more durable than the brass I have from Lapua. I'd like to get some more but do not recall where I got it before. Anyone have a suggestion?

It may have been just a Rigby headstamp but actually manufactured by BELL. Huntington Die Specialties may have some still. Or, BELL may still have some in inventory.

I think Bell is under Gov. contract and not making any rifle brass today...They had a dispersal sale recently...

That said, I have had really good luck with Lapua brass in the past..But I use mostly Norma and its fine with me and the cost is right...lasts a long time for N.E. brass. available from Huntingtons.

RWS makes the worlds best brass IMO....always have.

I got several boxes of the Bell brass from MidwayUSA and when it came in all but one was headstamped Rigby but it was in boxes labeled Bell. I'm sure Bell just made it for Rigby.

Bell is now out of the brass business. I have no idea where to get more. When I heard Bell was getting out of the business, I stocked up when MidwayUSA still had some.

-Bob F.

I checked with Huntington and they don't have Bell brass anymore for a 470. So I decided to use my noggin for something more than a hat rack and searched back to some posts here from last year. I found the source in an AR post from last August. Voila! I made a call and found the Bell brass. Since I started using some of it this past weekend, I really do like it. I have another 100 coming my way.

I've got a bunch (40?) of once fired brass headstamped "Rigby" (and some loaded 500 grain bullets, too, that I'd be glad to sell you. Send me a p.m. if interested.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I've got a bunch (40?) of once fired brass headstamped "Rigby" (and some loaded 500 grain bullets, too, that I'd be glad to sell you. Send me a p.m. if interested.

Judge, I just sent you a PM!

I have a question, whts wrong with Fed. brass?? Charlie

Nothing wrong with Federal brass. It is just too expensive to come by as loaded ammo if you can get Norma or BeLL.

I found that the Federal and Norma brass weighed about the same.

The BeLL brass is considerably heavier than either. Not a bad thing. Requires a little less powder to get the same velocities as with the lighter brass.

I sectioned a BeLL case head once (470 NE) and was impressed with its appearance of strength. I have some stashed from a few years ago. Good stuff.

RIP,
Why does the weight of the Bell brass impact the velocity of your loads? How much of a difference do you think it makes?

Spring,
That is a fundamental. Unless the brass alloys have very different compositions, more weight equals less internal volume. Less powder and or filler in this case is a good thing. Just 1 or two grains of powder difference, maybe more depending on the filler, powder, and bullet used. I don't have it all worked out for switching from my Norma/Federal loads to BeLL, but I will reduce by 3 grains and work up from my Norma/Federal charges of RL-15 plus filler. I like the idea of H4831 "Long Cut" Extreme with no filler in BeLL brass, 470 NE, I have about decided. That might be 2 or 3 grains less than a max load in Federal/Norma brass.

Rip,
I can certainly see that a thicker case would allow for less internal volume, however I have found the the Bell cases are slightly longer than my Norma cases (averaging 3.247 vs 3.235, with the standard for a .470 being 3.25). This could certainly compensate for the thickness and allow the same internal volume. Also, if you use the same amount of powder in either Bell or Norma cases, will the finished product still perform differently?

Spring,
I would trim everything to 3.240" for starters. There is not much difference as yours are, usable as is.

You and I need to load them and shoot them and find out, compare notes.

I like that BeLL brass too, but haven't loaded it yet. Will add that to the list tonight.

I have loaded some solids with both Bell and Norma cases using the same load of 85 grains of RL-15. I've been using just Norma cases for a while and have not shot but a couple of cartridges that use the Bells. When I did I was not shooting for a high degree of accuracy, so I can't really give an opinion as to whether there's any difference. From my casual observation, however, it seems the ones with Bells shot fine. I'll shoot a few more and see if I can be anymore specific.

Check on Midways site they have a-square and norma at reasonable prices. Charlie

Need to check velocities of the same load in the different cases.

I used 92 grains of RL-15 in the Norma brass, with a packing foam filler wad that weighed one or two grains.

My Norma brass weighed on average 321.5 grains. The BeLL stuff I have is about 50 grains of brass heavier.

I will try your 85 grain load of RL-15 with 5 grains of Dacron filler in both the Norma brass and the BeLL brass, and chronograph.

I will also try 114 grains of H4831 Extreme Long Cut with no filler in both cases, same load, and chronograph. Been meaning to do this for some time ...

A Ruger No. 1 in .470 NE would be a great shop mule for making comparisons like this, without wear on the double.

Then one could load it up to 470 Mbogo levels for kicks, using BeLL brass. 500 grainers at 2500 fps, maybe 105 to 110 grains of RL-15 and no filler.

The 470 NE(3.250") and 470 Mbogo (2.945") have very similar case capacity.

Better go measure the water capacity of fired cases:
Norma
Federal
BeLL

In my Ruger I load the 500's to about 2250 fps. That's plenty for me. I guess I never thought of loading up higher than that, but I see there could be potential there.

quote:

Originally posted by Ken Cline:
In my Ruger I load the 500's to about 2250 fps. That's plenty for me. I guess I never thought of loading up higher than that, but I see there could be potential there.

I want one of those Ruger No.1's in .470 NE.

Spring,
Forgive me for misleading. I was told by a source now known to be unreliable that the BELL brass was lots heavier than Norma. I got it confused in a Sometimer's dementia episode to imagine this was a fact. It helped explain why others were getting velocities with less RL-15 than I was, but that might be a 5 grain wad of Dacron that helps better than a 1.5 grain foam wad.

So let me set the record straight, from weighing 3 each of my .470 NE cases, new, unprimed:

Norma = 317.0 grains
BELL = 318.1 grains
Federal = 326.9 grains (nickel plated)

Water capacity by digital scale:

Norma: 150.4 grains
BELL: 145.1 grains
Federal: 149.2 grains

So, the Bell brass will hold only about 96% of what the Norma brass will.

This would seem to indicate a 4% reduction of powder charge for BELL brass compared to Norma brass ... at least in the lots of brass I have now.

I'm still planning to start the chronograph comparison of BELL vs. Norma brass with:

1) 85.0 grains of RL-15 with 5 grains of Dacron
and
2) 114 grains of H4831 Extreme Long Cut and no filler.

If I ever get a Ruger No.1 in .470 NE, I will try 105 grains of RL-15 and no filler.

RIP,
I'll be looking forward to your results. In my case, I have loaded both Bell and Norma brass using the same 85 grains of RL-15, the same Kynoch wads, and the same Woodleigh 500 Gr solid bullets. The Bells were trimmed to 3.24" while the Normas trimmed to about 3.23. All of the bullets were crimped. The Bells may have a slightly smaller internal voulume, but the wad adjusts to compensate for any differential in excess space.
Do you think there should still be a noticeable difference in performance?

Spring,
Maybe no significant difference. I will chronograph.
BTW, the water capacities were from fired brass with the spent primer in place, so they all should have been fully blown out for that water capacity.

I got my BELL brass from a passed on fellow's widow. There were a few fired cases, and almost 200 new/unfired. My stash.

RIP:

I have been using H4831sc with 500 grain Woodleighs, Barnes Banded, and North Fork CUPs in my 470...a Merkel, like yours...With H4831sc and H4831 long cut being equal you may want to start a bit lower than 114 grains.

I started out at 108 working up to 110 grains of H4831sc. The 110 grain load worked best.. regulates well with all bullets I noted above, accurate and to POA...The North Forks gave highest velocity...when I chronographed the loads temp. was 70+F

jjs,
Thanks for that. I will start at 110 grains and work down or up . As strong as those Merkels are, no worries.