For me…Because:

It reeks of Africa

It is easy to reload

The low pressure makes it easy to tame

It works on elephant

It is underestimated as an all-round African cartridge…works at close range dangerous game and is capable of 300 yard plains game shots

A 400 grain Barnes solid fits in it perfectly…and the combination works on elephant

It is a RIGBY!

RIP,

That's a very nice looking round you've developed! The Rigby is one of my all time favorites. Personally, I like to pair it with the 500NE in a double rifle.

I like the 416 Rigby because it does everything the 375H&H lays claim to, but across the board, it does it better. Slightly better BC allows the 416 to actually equal or just better the 375 in terms of flatness of trajectory. All the while offering a significant step up in terms of power. Yes, the recoil is a bit more than the H&H but recoil tolerance is really nothing more than time spent on the trigger with the proper mindset.

By that I mean if you head to the range, dreading the pounding the rifle is going to give you, you're already defeated. Practice sessions with the mindset that one way or another, you are going to learn to handle the weapon, will quickly prove very beneficial. IMO, if the majority of African countries went back to requiring .40+ caliber as the minimum DG round, as they did for awhile, the commentary would quickly change to how easy the 416 is to master in terms of recoil. Regardless of performance, there is just a certain segment of the crowd that are interested in mastering the minimum level of power required and no more. Up the minimum and the mindset will follow.

The Rigby is easy to load for, easy to find components, has a rich history, looks cool, performs like a dream, outshines the 375's, and with proper bullets, handles the smallest to the largest game animals, and all on the same trip. I've never found any major issue with the slightly larger action required for the cartridge over the 416 Rem. A minor issue at best and certainly not worth giving up the performance improvements available to the handloader that are NOT available for the 416 Rem. owner!

Could it actually be the best overall DG chambering. My vote is yes!

Why do I love the .416 Rigby?
We were hunting down a feral bull, my partner got off a bad shot and the bull took off trough heavy bush uphill.

I waited and he popped out in the clear over 200 yards away.
I flipped up my CZ's 200 yard leaf, took aim, said a prayer and squeezed one off.
Recovered from the recoil, and looked around, my partner said "You got him, he's down".

Took a while to work up to the downed bull,first shot was too far back and went into the gut, my shot hit and broke the left shoulder, found the 400 grain solid bent a bit from hitting bone but under the skin on the off side.

Love my CZ and the .416 Rigby!!!


ironfist

Good deal IRONFIST.
And to RIP, you are one of the guys on this site whom
I would love to live next door to. Thanks for your sharing.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
The .416 Rigby has:

1. An abominable 45-degree shoulder:
I would change this to 20-degree shoulder at same shoulder start location.
This would change it into an even slicker feeder than it is, and add some case capacity, and shorten the overly long neck length a wee bit.
Forming the cases at the factory and reloading them at home would be streamlined too.

2. A large amount of case body taper, and that is why it feeds so well despite the 45-degree shoulder.
I do love that about the .416 Rigby, same case body taper as its offspring .338 Lapua Magnum, made for military reliability in battle.
Facilitates feeding and extraction.

3. Zero parallel-sided free-bore, only a leade, therefore it has minimal effective free-bore:
This generally makes the .416 Rigby very accurate with bullets that will chamber.
Early Swift A-frame .416/400-gr bullets could not even be chambered in the .416 Rigby because they had some full diameter in front of the cannelure.
Swift changed the bullet nose shape.


I would not mind a little bit of parallel-sided free-bore, and a 20-degree shoulder on the .416 Rigby.
I would call it the .416 Rigby Improved Plus.
Greater case capacity, and more mechanically and ballistically sound for forming, reloading,
loading/feeding, and firing at increased velocity or lower pressure or both, with easy extraction.
Just like a neck-down of the 404 RIP.

Here is the ".423/.416 Rigby Improved Plus" aka 404 RIP, similar to what the .416 Rigby could be if its imperfections were corrected:

RIP-

If there were two factory cartridges, your design and the traditional design I would grab yours, of course.

For comparison, though, we need to look at practicalities versus costs in the real world. At least some of us do. So the 416 Rigby improved will have more capacity. Great. How much? Maybe 5%? If the improved has a 5% increase in capacity, then it can expect an optimal 1.25% increase in velocity, which at 2800 fps equals . . . drum roll again . . .
35 fps!

But that's not all. We can also add the 416 Weatherby trick and put in a little free bore, say .2" to .4" inches. That might be good for another 50 fps.

So the question becomes--would an owner/buyer of a 416Rigby want to get a set of custom dies, a custom throater with a new leade angle, too, add gunsmithing costs and the costs of fireforming brass for 85 fps?

Myself? I would have to add the hassle of paperwork taking a rifle across the ocean a couple of times. All for an increase that is below hunting significance? Probably not.

On the other hand, your proposal in another thread of building a 416 on a 505 Gibbs-Chey-Tac would deliver exactly the kind of quantum hunting advantage that could justify all of the work. One could expect a 200 fps increase. I would certainly love to hunt with one if it were available.

As for purchasing and building one myself, again I need to ask myself practical questions. Adding velocity to a cartridge still sends the same bullet package down range to do the work. Basically, a faster cartridge extends the range a little bit where a person doesn't need to use a rangefinder. For walk-in-the-forest hunting for me, that means the distance where a 350 grain TTSX sighted in for +2.1" max arc would drop 10 inches. That is about 325 yards for the Rigby and would be about 350 yards for the 416 Chey-Tac. That is a real improvement, but in Africa my shots over 300 yards are in the 3-4% category. At present, for the expense and bureaucratic hassle, I'm working on the 500 AccRel Nyati. The 500 will provide diameter and energy over the 416 for mountain buffalo. And we still have the 416 Rigby and a rangefinder should a 300+-yard eland show up. So we probably can't afford or justify an upgrade at the present.

Meanwhile, at least we have the current ultimate rifle for a single-rifle safari. It is our benchmark for measuring other African calibres.

416Tanzan,
A .416 RIP is nowhere near 5% bigger than the .416 Rigby.
That increase is so tiny that I will have to measure it as a drop of water, and that might get lost in the case variation.
Mention of the minimal case capacity increase is mere hyperbole to aid the naming of the cartridge.
It is a thing of beauty, though I would expect only someone such as myself or D R Hunter to be interested in such infinitesmal perfection.

But a .416/.505 Gibbs could be about 32% greater in case capacity than a .416 Rigby.
Expect 8% velocity increase or about 250 fps gained.
Even that is not worth the hassle of that wildcat for me.
Rather I prefer to probe the uncharted territory of a sporting weight .408 Chey-Tac "proprietary wildcat."
At least there exists reloading dies and properly headstamped brass for that, and best quality brass it is, from Captech International/Jamison.
That brass is meant for 64K psi routinely, even if my rifle will not be!

Having killed quite a few creatures with the .416 Rigby the only complaint I have is they run off a few yards farther than with a 500 a2. I just hate that extra 15 to 25 yard walk! Of course they don't run off at all with bigger stuff. From ground squirrels to elephants the .416 Rigby flat gets things done! One of my favorite small bores-Rob

Todd, you should be a gun writer! Honestly!

RIP, May I pull your chain a bit and say that your cartridge is the opposite of an "Improved" as you are reducing the shoulder angle!

Nice looking round though, looks like my 222 Rem magnified 5 times!

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
It is the ultimate single-rifle safari gun.

With a 416 Rigby a hunter is prepared for anything in the world.
--

I agree wholeheartedly!

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
RIP, May I pull your chain a bit and say that your cartridge is the opposite of an "Improved" as you are reducing the shoulder angle!
Nice looking round though, looks like my 222 Rem magnified 5 times!

Nakihunter: Yank harder! Thanks!
Merely sharpen a shoulder without blowing out the shoulder diameter (by reducing case taper)
and/or shortening the neck (by increasing base to shoulder distance),
and you will merely produce a lesser case capacity.
Now, pull my finger, and I shall produce a Walter noise.

BTW "yank your chain" in kiwi language means "pull your leg"

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
RIP, May I pull your chain a bit and say that your cartridge is the opposite of an "Improved" as you are reducing the shoulder angle!
Nice looking round though, looks like my 222 Rem magnified 5 times!

Nakihunter: Yank harder! Thanks!
Merely sharpen a shoulder without blowing out the shoulder diameter (by reducing case taper)
and/or shortening the neck (by increasing base to shoulder distance),
and you will merely produce a lesser case capacity.
Now, pull my finger, and I shall produce a Walter noise.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I never could bring myself to waste that big beatiful action on such a mundane cartridge when it can take ... a 505 Gibbs.

The 505 outclasses the 416 everytime

quote:

Originally posted by PD999:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I never could bring myself to waste that big beatiful action on such a mundane cartridge when it can take ... a 505 Gibbs.

The 505 outclasses the 416 everytime

-

Yes the 505 Gibbs is better in close, but it would not be my choice for antelope in the 200-400 yard range. Not with present components. (Of course, the 505 Gibbs does make for a nice[?] Hemingway shortstory.)
The 416Rigby will have significantly flatter trajectory and better BC's for resisting winddrift. Added to that, the 416Rigby will retain its energy downrange for a 300 yard eland.

However, to make this fair, one must compare apples with apples.
I load the 416 Rigby up to its natural capacity, so a 350 grain TTSX will travel at 2800 fps and when sighted in at 2.1" max-arc, it only drops 7" with 8" windage (10mph crossw) at 300 yards.
Oh, and it hits with 3600+ ftlbs at 300 yards.
The Gibbs is starting to wheeze at that range, though a custom high-BC bullet, loaded hot, might fix some of that. If you load a Barnes 525 grain TSX bullet to 2500 fps (you can go 2600fps if you'd like) and 2.1" max-arc, you will have a 12" drop at 300 yards and 11" winddrift. The 7200ftlb muzzle energy will still have just over 4000 ft lbs, though, should one hit the vitals.

Bottom line: YES the 505 Gibbs is a better buffalo gun, absolutely, but NO it is not a better all-around-Africa, single-rifle safari gun. Todd and I are on the same page on this one. He matches the all-around 416 Rigby, properly loaded, with a 500 double. Very genteeell. I match the allaround 416 Rigby, properly loaded, with a blue-collar 500 AccRelNyati. (We can still drink fine wines together in the high country, or beers in the lower country.) Buffalo are covered in close with either rifle. The Rigby becomes the rifle of choice over 200 yards, though with proper bullets (360 grain CEB) even the 500 Nyati should be usable in a pinch out to 300 yards. I'll have to test when my new short-throated barrel is ready.

With my 505 I could not have made the 250 yard shot that bagged my first impala,



But I did with my 416 Rigby driving the 300gn Barnes at 3020fps. He dropped on the spot.
My well rounded hunting battery is 550 Gibbs, 416 Rigby, 338 Win Mag, 25/06 Rem, 22 rimfire.

quote:

Originally posted by 338User:
With my 505 I could not have made the 250 yard shot that bagged my first impala,



But I did with my 416 Rigby driving the 300gn Barnes at 3020fps. He dropped on the spot.
My well rounded hunting battery is 505 Gibbs, 416 Rigby, 338 Win Mag, 25/06 Rem, 22 rimfire.

Very Nice, several times over.

Nice shot.

Nice impala.

Nice choice of a plains game loading.

Nice battery.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:

quote:

Originally posted by PD999:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I never could bring myself to waste that big beatiful action on such a mundane cartridge when it can take ... a 505 Gibbs.

The 505 outclasses the 416 everytime

-

Yes the 505 Gibbs is better in close, but it would not be my choice for antelope in the 200-400 yard range. Not with present components. (Of course, the 505 Gibbs does make for a nice[?] Hemingway shortstory.)
The 416Rigby will have significantly flatter trajectory and better BC's for resisting winddrift. Added to that, the 416Rigby will retain its energy downrange for a 300 yard eland.

However, to make this fair, one must compare apples with apples.
I load the 416 Rigby up to its natural capacity, so a 350 grain TTSX will travel at 2800 fps and when sighted in at 2.1" max-arc, it only drops 7" with 8" windage (10mph crossw) at 300 yards.
Oh, and it hits with 3600+ ftlbs at 300 yards.
The Gibbs is starting to wheeze at that range, though a custom high-BC bullet, loaded hot, might fix some of that. If you load a Barnes 525 grain TSX bullet to 2500 fps (you can go 2600fps if you'd like) and 2.1" max-arc, you will have a 12" drop at 300 yards and 11" winddrift. The 7200ftlb muzzle energy will still have just over 4000 ft lbs, though, should one hit the vitals.

Bottom line: YES the 505 Gibbs is a better buffalo gun, absolutely, but NO it is not a better all-around-Africa, single-rifle safari gun. Todd and I are on the same page on this one. He matches the all-around 416 Rigby, properly loaded, with a 500 double. Very genteeell. I match the allaround 416 Rigby, properly loaded, with a blue-collar 500 AccRelNyati. (We can still drink fine wines together in the high country, or beers in the lower country.) Buffalo are covered in close with either rifle. The Rigby becomes the rifle of choice over 200 yards, though with proper bullets (360 grain CEB) even the 500 Nyati should be usable in a pinch out to 300 yards. I'll have to test when my new short-throated barrel is ready.

416T,

I like to say it would be optional as to whether or not to extend the pinky finger while drinking a martini!

I too have a .416Rigby.

I am happy the Woodleigh makes 450grain bullets in tht caliber + hawk do a 500grainer.
I have had a 500Grain Hawk doing 712 m/sec in a CZ I had several years ago. That´s enough.
I just wished Woodleigh did a 500grain premium bullet instead of Hawk. It would distance my .378Wea to a point where it would really make a difference beteen thes two.

338User: Nice rifle, nice impala!

I completely agree that the 505 Gibbs is a fantastic 'stopping' caliber, but probably not so great for plains game (but I've used it out to 300 yards; you just need to know the trajectory for your load)!


With regards to the 416 Rigby as a possible 'stopping' caliber, wasn't the 450 Rigby initially developed, due to the 416 Rigby failing on Paul Roberts (who until recently built the Rigby & Co rifles)?

http://www.huntnetwork.net/mod...Magnum%20Rimless.pdf

416Tanzan and BenKK, thanks for your kind comments.

I've had two .416 Rigbys and bought them for buffalo (Unfortunately I'm dreaming more about buffalo hunting than doing it. Considering setting up a charity - it's a good cause you know...).

It does that job really well, and is very handy for plains game too.

Although animals usually stop when I shoot them with the .416 Rigby, it's no "stopping" gun. Never was. But, let's be honest, "stopping" guns don't do plains game as well as the .416 Rigby.

The only downside with the .416 Rigby, as compared with a .375 for plains and buffalo, is that expanding ammunition is not allowed here in the UK. It means travel/ammo logistics are a pain in the backside, but I happily accept that to have the added power of the .416 Rigby.

But, at the end of the day, the little experience I have from Africa tells me that the merits of a particular calibre or a particular premium bullet are insignificant compared to the ability to shoot your gun fast and accurate (accurate enough for the game in question).

So, as much as I like my .416 Rigby, there are a few other calibres that could do the same job equally well.

quote:

Originally posted by IdahoVandal:
I love the .416 Rigby because....

...it can be necked down to 9.3 and.....SHAZAM!

IV

That would be the 366 DGW made up by a gunsmith friend of mine and his customer, David G. Walker, a dozen years back. You can bet your sweet bippy it is SHAZAM when you touch her off!

I love the 416 rigby because it is the rifle I used to kill my first cape buffalo on my 40th birthday. I have one big bore rifle and when I was deciding what to purchase, the 416 rigby seemed to have it all in one package. Will be using it in July on a tuskless and plains game in Zim.