A DGR should have open sights and QR rings if it has a scope. Most importantly it should have a stock that fits in case the open sights are used/needed.

For first and second shots a scope is fine.

But if you get charged a scope is uncool.

Most PH's I have talked to prefer their client to use a scope because then the first shot is less likely to be a flub up.

The point is a dedicated full on DG backup rifle is not usually scoped. If your hunting with a DG caliber does that make it a DG rifle? I think not. But it's another consideration when you build your rifle. It's very much unlikely a visiting hunter will be the one tracking the missing or wounded animal first in line. It can happen but unlikely. With that in mind the DG rifle is carried by others in most cases. I really think the question is posted in error. it should be what does a dedicated DG back up rifle have, rather then just the generic DG rifle, no?

A hunters rifle should have a good low power scope, as one perfect shot is all that is really needed and if a second quick shot is needed the scope is still a benifit. If a follow up is needed I doubt anyone is going to start tinkering with scope levers and someplace to put the detatched scope and run through the bush following a departing herd of game. It just does not happen that way, to allow such flexability, not often anyhow.

It's great to have QD rings and open sights on a powerful rifle. If the scope craps out, your still in business and the ranges are within the capacity of an experiecned riflemans use for DG. But to think your going to follow up a missing bufflo and start detatching scopes and trying to locate someplace to put it while your running through the bush is a bit unrealistic IMO. Such an event would be the exception rather then the rule.

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It seems there is never enough time to do things right, but always enough time to do them over

My primary sights are iron, either receiver sights or shallow V, I like the option to put a scope on if I need one so I have all talley QD rings and bases on some of my guns..Many of my rifles are iron sighted only.

I use a scope for plainsgame hunting, and elk hunting sometimes.

I do this because I choose to and thats the only reason.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Sarge

Last trip to Tanzania, my "gun bearer" dropped my rifle on the fender of the Land Rover and wrecked my Swarovski $1200 DGR scope. Silly me ,I didn't have a spare with me. I was forced to use my open sights all day long! You know they work just fine out to 50 yrds or so.-Rob

I realize that the gun a ph uses is NOT scoped for such a hunt. Now I have seen and heard of several hunters who just use a scope on their rifle to hunt dangerous game animals. So I suppose that is what the ph is getting paid for, to keep things on the up and up as well as being the protector of such hunters, who so choose to hunt the DG animal in this manner. I have also read that most ph's like to have a person using a scope rifle for such an event. Telling that it makes for a better chance of hitting the animal the first time out the gate in the prescribed vital area.

If I should choose NOT to hunt with just an iron sighted gun or dangerous game Back Up Rifle, as your referred to the rifle in your post, I would think the scoped only gun would sufice for the hunt wouldn't you? I was looking for the pro's and con's of what is the better of both worlds, if such a thing exist. I was wanting to know, Is it simply a matter of hunter preference or just status quo so to speak.
Thanks all for your points of view gentlemen.

Benchrest groups aren't required, but properly placing the first shot is. In the field, lighting conditions, cover, etc. have a way of making shots more difficult, even if the range isn't that great. More then a few hunters have muffed shots when they thought they were shooting the wrong end of an animal.

Look at Saeed's big game hunting rifles, as I recall they are all topped with Leupold VX III 2.5-8's, and no irons.

Personally, I'm a bit conservative by nature, so prefer a good scope, solidly mounted on qd rings, and good irons as a backup. The caveat is, use quality componets, and have them fit by a qualified smith.

So it is settled, I shall just hunt with my model 70 in a .375 chambering since it has iron sights on the barrel already gentlemen.

I'm not a bad shot with the irons, but I am far better with a scope. My 375 H&H wears a Zeiss 3x9, Talley QD's w/levers, and iron sights. My 458 Lott & 460 Weatherby wears a Leupold 2.5 M8 (heavy crosshairs), Talley QD's, and iron sights.

With all that being said, it drives me to distraction to see a double with a scope mounted. Probably nothing wrong with it, but it sure looks out of place.

A scope has its place and that is in the plainsgame fields, night shooting and distance shooting, and for the folks with bad eyes..irons own the trenches.

Many folks are against irons because they grew up in a scope world, many have not tried them and base opinnions on gun rag tripe, others are close minded towards them and refuse to try...Actually they are very accurate indeed up to 300 yards for some, and 200 yards for others.

First and foremost, you have to try them and hunt with them before you pass judgment.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Having a scope for the first shot at baited lion, baited leopard, & 99% of buffalo is a good idea, to make that perfect first shot.

But it is not a DGR if it doesn't have open sights. If the poop hits the fan, open sights are needed if you get close in heavy bush.

You can blame Oldsarge for pointing this out: if you are shooting DG at 100 yards it ain't dangerous, so maybe you don't need open sights.

The same goes for bow hunters, flintlockers, etc. (bring on the hate mail...), you ain't hunting DG, you're just shooting it, cause you figure the PH is going to bail you out if need be.

Will

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-21-2002).]

A PH with a low power QD scope on his stopping rifle would not alarm me. If he ever took the scope off, I would want to see him leave it off or check the zero again if he put it back on, no matter how fine his QD system was.

However a scope on a double rifle would be in very poor taste. Iron sights only on a double please.

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RAB

quote:

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Originally posted by Atkinson:
I think we should not so causally dismiss our duties of back up to our PH's, I know of many cases wherein the client saved the PH....and in the short rows I want an iron sight and the pointability of the gun without the use of sights, I can't do that with a scope on it...

A scope has its place and that is in the plainsgame fields, night shooting and distance shooting, and for the folks with bad eyes..irons own the trenches.

Many folks are against irons because they grew up in a scope world, many have not tried them and base opinnions on gun rag tripe, others are close minded towards them and refuse to try...Actually they are very accurate indeed up to 300 yards for some, and 200 yards for others.

First and foremost, you have to try them and hunt with them before you pass judgment.

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I grew up using iron sights. My dad taught me and my older brother how to use them, and let us have at it.
All of my rifles have had iron sights from the get-go. I took my griz with an iron-sighted rifle.
I use a scope when it's called for, yet have no problem "going iron". ~~~Suluuq