The pic is of 585 Nyati without neck and shoulder formed, a 2.815 Nyati and a 505 Gibbs.

Bertram 585 Nyati basic brass!-Rob

Well yes I guess so, was sold to me as "unformed", so yes would make it basic.

Pitty you couldn't make a round with it, no rim, no belt and thin wall - so no head space, so I guess 585 would be about max cal.

A .600 Woodleigh will actually fit perfectly. I expect it's really their basic .600 NE brass that they turn the Rim off and then turn the extractor goove into. This is what gave me the idea of a belted .600NE.-Rob

416SW--How long is the basic case to start with.And are all
Nyati basic cases that long. If they're as long as in the picture I will buy some right now. What is the diameter of the base also.If it is as long as it looks somebody find me some right away...Ed.

ED-They are 3 or 3.2 inches long and Huntingtons has them in stock. Expensive though, about $4 or $5 a case. I have some at home if Huntingtons is out. Base is .640. The case walls have very variable thickness( mine varied from .009-.014 on the same case) and the brass is extremely soft. -Rob

Rob--If you have the 3.2 version basic and still straight I would like to buy 4

from you to check them out and test to see how easy it is to belt them and lengthen them, like the 450 NE that I

made my 458 HE from.. The brass variation up on the neck

I can fix.If they are they soft in the neck area

I can fix also.If base is soft, that is what I built

my 458 HE out of.So nothing new..Ed.

I would like to build a bolt Nyati. What would be a good starting point. CZ or Olympic?? I have started a 510 wells project, but my brother has already laid claim to it. He said we would share but I know my brother!!!

liled

Ed
The one I have is 3.351 long, and .007-.009" at the mouth, .638" rim, .654" at base of body, the case mouth was not perfect when I got it ID about 1/4 down is .628-.640"
Just spoke to the guy I bought it off, it was a second - the dented mouth, seconds can range from dents to unusable they are $3 AUD, export quality is $6 AUD
Bertram is definitely soft, they also have a step about where you would expect the web to be on the inside, roughly .020"

Out of the 130 505Gibbs I bought only in about 30 was the step centred ie. some of the cases had .040" step one side and none the other. Also rim diameter varied along with the length&depth of the extractor groove, I had to send nearly half back to my smith to get rim or grovve turned to fit the shell holder, had to get a tighter shell holder as some of the cases almost came out of it. Also nearly fifty cases were 50grns heavier than the rest.

Liled
Start a thread and ask PC he had his Nyati built on a CZ.
His rim is 505Gibbs size and he said there was not much metal left on the bolt face that holds the cartridge rim(not sure what you call it, bolt rim?) He looked at my 416/505 which is a Bauska and said there was a lot more metal left on my bolt.
I've looked at the Oly site and there dimensions don't seem to be the same as my bauska mine might be a BBK02 though will check when I get home. My mag is about 98mm(3.86") long

Rob,

I realize you are ignoring me, but this is a very WRONG statement you made.

Quote:

---

A .600 Woodleigh will actually fit perfectly. I expect it's really their basic .600 NE brass that they turn the Rim off and then turn the extractor goove into. This is what gave me the idea of a belted .600NE.-Rob

---

First the 600 OK may be a reworked rimless 577 NE, but he 600NE is it's own UNIQUE case. It has a much larger base diameter than your 600 OK or the 577NE or the 585 Nyati.

By the way, rims are not machined into a rimmed case. The rim of a rimmed case is cold headed (like nails are). After the heading operation they are finish machined. So if one wanted a rimless 600 NE one would not head the rim and then machine it off! One would simply machine the case blank for the rimless extractor groove, and skip the heading operation.

Of course your ignorance of these facts is not surprising.

Scott

416SW--The Bertram brass in 450NE I used had that step in

going from head to sides, but the head was much harder than about any other case I have seen.I could easily get over a 100 fps more with them in my 458HE wildcat compared to other

brass.They just stretched and separated just above that step, where other brass would last 5-10 times longer.That length is what I want.Does the Nyati basic that

Bertram calls good and ships come that long, or are they

cut back to 3.2 in...Rob mentioned two lengths, 3

and 3.2 inches, but I would want the 3.35 inch even if seconds.The cases I used on my wildcat were seconds.Could use and will buy a half dozen if your friend has extra,

that are that long..Ed.

Scott--Page 19 of Ken's book.Can't do without heading,as
it further shapes the primer pocket and work hardens the head.The heading ram makes brass flow out to where a rim would be if it is a rimmed case.If a rimless case it is
trimmed away and extractor groove cut.The Nyati is made
using same size internal punnch and headers as a 577NE
case, only the all the material that would be left on
for a rim is machined off.That's what Ross did when he made the Nyati,He took 577 brass and cut off rimm and made groove.The basic Nyati case being nearly straight, makes mouth large enough to accept a .620 diameter
bullet, like Rob says.And that is why he figured it might
be a 600 NE case, they used as a basis.Not everyone on here is perfect,'except me', but most try and like Rob make very valuable contributions to the world of big bore shooting.Ed.

Will give the guy a ring tomorrow.
Found this site, doesn't have info you want but seems to list a lot of the bertram cases.
AMMO DUMP

Or if you get real desperate this is Bertram's No. from the phone book 61 3 5792 2912. Use Sydney or Melbourne time

World clock

In hind site I would have liked to have done my .585 on a Bauska. I am having no problems with my feeding and extraction but I just do not like the fact I do not have much meat left on my bolt. Or I would do what Karl has done and have my cases turned down to Rigby case head size, others say this is a no no but Karl staes his feeds and extracts flawlessly.

.416sw's action is good for gibbs rimmed cases I think.

416SW-- Please find out what you can.And yes I have talked
to Bruce before at midnite here.Thanks in advance for your
help in finding cases.Ed.

The original 585 Nyati made for Seyfried by sterling Davenport used the 416 Rigby case head but required a Sculer single stack mag to feed properly. It was done on a M98 action. Getting heavily rebated rim cartridges to feed is one of the most difficult challenges I learned as a amateur Gunsmith. Bolt overrides and cartridge porposing on the rapid feed stroke are all too common a problw. Ed if you need some of that Nyati Basic brass I can send you some. By the way, as PC knows, the neck diameter typically used for the NYATI must be increased by about .003 or the cases will not fit the std chamber. I have a Nyati reamer that I designed that corrects this problem and 500 Grains has a piloted neck reamer that will accomplish the same thing. If you try and turn case necks, you rapidly wind up with tissue paper thin walls. This is why so many 585 Nyati projects fail. Finally, I recently saw a 585 Nyati at a Vegas gun show going for $9000. At that price Scotts/Judy could pay for His/Her Tallywacker operation. Maybe we should take up a raffle.-Rob

Rob-I will email you address. I wont be using them for a 585
but want to belt them, rework the shape, and stretch them to get a long belted straight case
for my 550 HE. Barrel is getting rebored now by DAN.My
original brass(it was my .510 HE wildcat) that I had to make the the wildcat
from didn't give me enough slant to the sides, only
about .004 in over 3.5 inches.The regular 550 mag that
RNS and others will have .012 in about 2.93 inches.
I know I can belt these, have a bigger base(and hold more
powder), and a slant on the sides,
exactly like my 458 HE. When I saw in that picture that
there was Nyati cases 3 and 1/3 inches long, I am jumping on them, as being just what I need..Thanks for your help,
and have fun testing the 600.Ed

Ed do you still want me to get cases? Just spoke to the guy and he has them.

416SW -- Yes please get me a four of best looking ones

that are real long like the one in picture.I think all of the ones I will find here will be cut to 3.0 or 3.2, and I need extra length.I will pay you for them and mailing costs.

Thanks for the good work.Email me-- gunowner@journey.com

and will get you address for shipping and get yours to send funds.Ed.

My smith followed Robs advice with the neck measurements to the letter and my .585 feeds and functions flawlessly. So if you build a .585 get Rob to e-mail you his stuff. Rob in hindsight I wish I had of opted for the rigby case head rather than the gibbs all though my thin bolt lip has not caused any drama's it still nags in the back of my head