Hurry up Marty!!!

(.223) (.44Mag) (250gr Barnes "X" 458 Socom) (500gr A-square 458 Socom)



Mmmmmmmmm

Ammo goes out tomorrow UPS Ground for testing
500 gr AGS-T
400 gr RN Solid
350 gr RN
300 gr JHP

You should try placing a 6mm stainless or TC ball bearing in the mouth of the 250 gr Barnes XFN ....

Upper should go out either tomorrow or Monday at the latest, devil in the details, our welding equipment went Tango Uniform ....

Will get it to you as fast as we can but everything is getting all FUBAR in terms of scheduling

Good equipment late is better than any other option in this case.

You should have her now, the welding on the muzzle brake turned out nice, you need to look VERY close to notice a hue of "gold" where the weld metal is located (6 o clock on the brake)

Let me know if you have any questions

Ammo should arrive tomorrow

IT IS PERFECT! really good work. I may have to go shoot it in the snow. The iron sights from DPMS came in the same time and the UPS Guy took the sights to the neighbor for a signature! and left the upper on the doorstep (boob), Anyway, all's well that ends well and it looks like a good shooter so far. I'll let you know. Photo's and video to follow.

It's a LOT lighter than my 24" stainless heavy bull with the 6-24 x 54 scope.

Curious, just what brass is the 458 Socum based on and how do you form it?

OEH, I do not know. with a rebated case head I think it may be special.

Marty. Every thing is here incl. the AA holo-sight from E-bay. I think this would be the PERFECT southern whitetail gun. Or perhaps a good CQ/T weapon. I'm going to try and put it on the table at FPED and see what we can do.

Thanks MUCH again.

The brass is the same as that used for the 50 Beowulf. It is essentially lengthed 50 AE brass with a rebated rim.

ASS_CLOWN

quote:

Originally posted by ASS_CLOWN:
The brass is the same as that used for the 50 Beowulf. It is essentially lengthed 50 AE brass with a rebated rim.

ASS_CLOWN

NO! Close, but not quite. Our brass has a different rim size, allowing for higher pressure before the base of the case collapses down on top of the rim. THe .458 SOCOM is also shorter. While you can make SOCOM brass from Beowulf brass, it will have the wrong rim size. In a pinch, it might work. But recall the "collapsing" feature mentioned above.

And yes, this is a real concern. One of our customers inadvertently used the wrong powder, something along the lines of Blue Dot or similar, instead of Win296. The resultant peak pressure was close to 3x that of our normal loads. Rifle, brass and shooter all lived to tell the story. We were contacted by Starline because a competing product (NOT the Beowulf) that uses the smaller rim of the M43 case had just suffered a disastrous incident, where this collapse occurred (rumor has it that the test shooter was injured, but no independant confirmation was possible due to .gov (.mil) involvement) Anway, this competitor had attempted to load too much higher pressure and had suffered the case failure and was blaming the brass. We were called as independent third party to confirm that it was NOT the fault of the brass, but of the case design and the load development of the customer. NOTE, none of the above involved the .50 Beowulf cartridge.

But to the question earlier about the source of brass, if you want the TRUE proper rim size for the SOCOM, then you either buy the brass from Midway, Graf or Starline, or else you COULD form it from 425 Westley Richards ... (at $4 per case not recommended and a LOT of work, but it has the right rim and base dimenions ....)

If I can provide further information, please let me know

quote:

Originally posted by Collins:
Marty. Every thing is here incl. the AA holo-sight from E-bay. I think this would be the PERFECT southern whitetail gun. Or perhaps a good CQ/T weapon. I'm going to try and put it on the table at FPED and see what we can do.

Thanks MUCH again.

Many a white tail, feral hog and even small brown and black bear have been taken with this cartridge.

In terms of CQB, note this variant that was built for a customer in VA with a .gov job ...

Scotty!

Did you ever sell your 50 Beowulf upper?

quote:

Originally posted by MartytW:


In terms of CQB, note this variant that was built for a customer in VA with a .gov job ...

I NEED that charging handle. Is it a direct attachment to the bolt / Carrier?

That is a special upper receiver made by SOCOM Manufacturing, quite pricey. I believe I have located another source for these that is much more competitive in price. We can retrofit your upper to have this receiver, it also requires a small slot to be machined in the carrier where this new charging handle engages the carrier.

Let me know if you really want to go that route and we can make it happen. For RIGHT shooters it dumps gas in your face through that slot, but for a lefty not an issue. Also, this upper receiver has the shell deflector which is good for a south paw.

Marty,

Thanks for clearing up my statement. I thought the rim was larger in diameter on the SOCOM, but wasn't sure anymore. I knew the basic cases were otherwise the same.

Dan,

Yes I sold that upper last fall to Urdobob. He said he was going to use in white tail. I never heard any accuracy reports back from him, but I am well documented here for stating how INACCURATE it was. He said he liked it very much (I admit it was a fun plinker and got LOTS of attention at the range). He claimed the recoil was about the same as his 375 H&H. I can tell you for a fact it kicked a hell of a lot harder than my Benelli M1 12 gauge. The 12 gauge outperformed it in the ballistics and accuracy departments too! The stock fitment was far from optimum for me so I did not enjoy shooting it as much as I did my REAL big bores.

ASS_CLOWN

Clown -

I am surprised to hear about the accuracy issues, as Lothar Walther has had no problem maintainin MOA groups with this cartridge (.50B) in their test barrel.

As to accuracy potential, these are groups from customers at 100 yards:





In terms of recoil, I felt that my .308 Win had more recoil than the 16" AR-15 in these big bores. Installing the ACE Skeleton Stock with pad does help significantly. The .338 Win Mag Rem 700 does FAR more pain in the prone position than these kittens. Heck, I have fired it Full Auto with 300 gr JHP in a 10.5 barrel ....



My Rem 870 HD kicks worse, too ....

Now, the 475 Tremor with 230 gr Hawk over 52 gr Lil Gun at 2500 fps, that does hurt ....

Marty,

I believe that your 458 SOCOM is a far better designed case than the 50 Beowulf from a combustion viewpoint.

The Beowulf, at least mine and a couple others I have conversed with owners about, have significant standard deviation and range issues shot to shot. They work best with heavy bullets, which reduces the MV to a level far below what is achievable with a sabot 12 ga. I think the addition of a shoulder in your 458 SOCOM goes a LONG way to addressing this issue of the Beowulf.

With regard to recoil, the loads that came with the reloading dies, ie 36.5 gr of IMR4227 and 325gr bullet (if I recall correctly) don't kick too bad at all. They also don't group worth a damn, are ~ 350 fps slower than the advertised MV on average, and have an extreme spread of 200 fps or so.

I have a designed a 0.416 case based off of the Ultra mag that is short enough to be used in a micro Mauser (CZ527). If I ever get excited enough about a 'micro mag' I may part with the money to build an experimental rifle up.

Like I said, the Beowulf was fun, but mine was by no means a tack driver. I have had probably in the neighborhood of 20 people shoot it. Every single one of them complained about the level of recoil, and the poor accuracy.

The guy who liked it the most was former German Special Forces. However, he like myself, did not find it a practical weapon just fun. Kinda like firecrackers (same thing stated by two former Rangers I know).

There was a big question about controllability under full auto operation. This weapon would seem to really need a very good brake/compensator. Mine was a straight barrel.

Like I said, after a few rounds, I decided to part company with it. I like my Benelli better.

ASS_CLOWN

quote:

Originally posted by ASS_CLOWN:

Yes I sold that upper last fall to Urdobob. He said he was going to use in white tail. I never heard any accuracy reports back from him, but I am well documented here for stating how INACCURATE it was. He said he liked it very much (I admit it was a fun plinker and got LOTS of attention at the range). He claimed the recoil was about the same as his 375 H&H. I can tell you for a fact it kicked a hell of a lot harder than my Benelli M1 12 gauge. The 12 gauge outperformed it in the ballistics and accuracy departments too! The stock fitment was far from optimum for me so I did not enjoy shooting it as much as I did my REAL big bores.

Given those facts, I am glad I never pursued the .50 Beo. It sounds like one of those things that is fun in concept but not in reality.

quote:

Originally posted by ASS_CLOWN:
Marty,

I believe that your 458 SOCOM is a far better designed case than the 50 Beowulf from a combustion viewpoint.

Thanks!

quote:

The Beowulf, at least mine and a couple others I have conversed with owners about, have significant standard deviation and range issues shot to shot. They work best with heavy bullets, which reduces the MV to a level far below what is achievable with a sabot 12 ga. I think the addition of a shoulder in your 458 SOCOM goes a LONG way to addressing this issue of the Beowulf.

Here is a link to some interesting load development by a customer, it gives a good idea of both velocity range and spread.

http://www.mylittlespark.com/ar15/458Socom.html

quote:

With regard to recoil, the loads that came with the reloading dies, ie 36.5 gr of IMR4227 and 325gr bullet (if I recall correctly) don't kick too bad at all. They also don't group worth a damn, are ~ 350 fps slower than the advertised MV on average, and have an extreme spread of 200 fps or so.

I am surprised at the choice of 4227, as that was not one of the powders that rated high on our list. Win296, H110, and now Reloder 7 and Lil Gun are turning out the best results.

quote:

I have a designed a 0.416 case based off of the Ultra mag that is short enough to be used in a micro Mauser (CZ527). If I ever get excited enough about a 'micro mag' I may part with the money to build an experimental rifle up.

Sounds interesting. When you say .416, are you referring to caliber or case size?

quote:

The guy who liked it the most was former German Special Forces. However, he like myself, did not find it a practical weapon just fun. Kinda like firecrackers (same thing stated by two former Rangers I know).

SEK? KSG? Which unit? Practicality is subjective. When I lived up North, my mummy bag rated to -30°F was practical. Here in Texas, sitting here in shorts, T-shirt with the AC on, it is not. Initially most our sales were to hunters and those who liked the novelty aspect. Now, especially following 9-11-01 as well as OIF/OEF, more and more sales to LE/Mil. With the proper choice of bullet, the .458 offers the capability to penetrate armor at 25 yards, as well as deliver up to 600 gr per shot, subsonically, suppressed. LE folks are looking at it for CQB/Entry work to replace the shotgun when faced with BGs wearing armor. Also, in a situation where a vehicle needs to be disabled it can do a tremendous job with a 400 gr RN Solid at 1700 fps. For that same reason contractors in Iraq are starting to use this caliber, along with the 600 gr subsonic load in suppressed bolt guns (the reason we chose the .308 size rim was to be able to use bolt guns, here is my "Walking Around Mauser"

quote:

There was a big question about controllability under full auto operation. This weapon would seem to really need a very good brake/compensator. Mine was a straight barrel.

With the 600 gr subsonic load, a 10.5" barrel and a suppressor, the rate of fire is quite high, but controllability is just fine. Now, the 300 gr JHP load from the shorty in F/A is a wild ride. We have footage of both, if I knew how to share it I would. I hope to add it to our website soon.