I am restocking a Mauser 416 Taylor with a Boyd's laminated. It has dual crossbolts, does anyone think I need a secondary recoil lug?

NOPE! Just do a good bedding job.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
NOPE! Just do a good bedding job.

Ditto's, plenty strong

Acraglass Gel will be liberally used.

When I put together my 400H&H my Gun Smith insisted on a second recoil lug. His premise was at after a certain pressure threshold a recoil lug is needed. Do factory .416 Rem have recoil lugs?

I have a Boyds laminate on mine. The initial bedding job was not as good as it should have been. It chipped out a little chip behind the tang on the second shot. I took it to a different gunsmith that was familiar with big bores. He rebedded it and filled the chip space with bedding compound. I've had it for a number of years and shoot it pretty often. No second lug, no problems.
Bfly

quote:

His premise was at after a certain pressure threshold a recoil lug is needed

What pressure? Case pressure, bolt trust? For me the 416 Taylor isn't much more than the 338WMag. Would never dream of a second lug. Or go the other way a 458 necked down. Not many 458 running around with a second lug.

There might be a point where a second lug is needed. The 416 Taylor isn't it.

Yes, between the 338 WM and the 458 WM there is no need for a second lug.

On the other hand, CZ routinely adds second barrel lugs on their Safari calibres. This is comforting loading a 416 Rigby over 6000 ftlbs. Accuracy can be tricky, though, unless properly bedded. The two different recoil lugs can allow for microscopic movement unless accurately bedded.

So count your blessings. Avoiding an unnecessary second lug will be inherently better for accuracy.

With the action properly full length bedded. I would also bed the first few inches of barrel channel and consider a small amount of pressure bedding on the forend. 350-400 grain slugs cause a lot of barrel vibration. Others might chime in one way or the other and that is fine. It is just what I would try.

quote:

Originally posted by Zephyr:
When I put together my 400H&H my Gun Smith insisted on a second recoil lug. His premise was at after a certain pressure threshold a recoil lug is needed. Do factory .416 Rem have recoil lugs?

IIRC, Winchester did put secondary recoil lugs on the barrels of their chromoly .416 Remington rifles in walnut stocks.

But a 450 Dakota Mauser Banner rifle I have does not have a secondary recoil lug, walnut stocked.

It depends on how good your bedding is everywhere else.
The Mauser was perfect with epoxy everywhere from the factory.
The Winchesters had rudimentary "hot glue bedding" at the recoil lugs, from the factory.
Both had crossbolts fore and aft of magazine well.

I do not give laminates any credit for being stronger than walnut.
They are just more stable in changing humidity and temperatures, and usually heavier than walnut.
The laminates can still split down the middle of one of the laminations.

If my stock had a full aluminum bedding block, I would skip the barrel lug.

So it depends.
Your call on how good your bedding is.

I will say this: I plan to do a .408 Chey-Tac with an MRC walnut stock and MRC M1999 PH action.
I will not want a secondary lug on the barrel,
though this cartridge will have much more recoil than a .416 Taylor.
But I will have full contact glass bedding throughout, crossbolts fore and aft of magazine well, pillars,
and proper tang relief, and an axial piece of steel allthread buried, hidden in epoxy in the grip.

No need on a .416 Taylor if properly glass bedded. Most stocks split at the tang when the action starts to move and gets a running start on the stock at a particularily weak point. Its just like a log splitter. Pay real close attention to the bedding at the tang and you will have no problems. -Rob

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
Not many 548 running around with a second lug.

There might be a point where a second lug is needed. The 416 Taylor isn't it.

The Whitworth 458s came from the factory with a second recoil lug screwed to the barrel.

IIRC the M70s in 416Rem came with a secon recoil lug on the barrel(I might be misremembering though...)

In my mind a second recoil lug is cheap insurance. Also, the placement of a recoil lug on the barrel doubles the surface area that is absorbing the recoil and the recoil lug on the barrel has a lot more wood behind it than the action lug.

I know that with good bedding the second lug is probably unnecessary, but I would ask "why would you not want to add a second recoil lug. Just saying....

quote:

The Whitworth 458s came from the factory with a second recoil lug screwed to the barrel

If I knew that I've forgotten along with a lot of other things. Did the non Whitworth?

As to a second lug if it gives a warm and fussy then go for it for sure. Is it needed I don't think so. For me a second lug was just another pain to deal with in getting a good bedding job.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

The Whitworth 458s came from the factory with a second recoil lug screwed to the barrel

If I knew that I've forgotten along with a lot of other things. Did the non Whitworth?

I believe the Whitworth and the Mark-X both came with the second recoil lug screwed to a slot in the barrel. I could be wrong as it has been a few years since I owned either one.

Maybe someone who currently owns a Mark-X in 458 could weigh in?

Jason,
You are right.
I have a .458WinMag Whitworth and it has a barrel lug like on this .375 H&H, top barreled action below,
photo borrowed from another thread here (member z1r, showing his handiwork on a .416 Ruger without secondary lug, so far):



The lug was factory-bedded in some gray colored epoxy that looked a lot like JB Weld, with similar spot treatment at the primary action lug.
Whitworth did both the .375 and .458 same way, in a nicely slim walnut stock, with ebony forend tip and steel grip cap, and single exposed crossbolt, IIRC.

quote:

Whitworth did both the .375 and .458 same way

I had two Whitworth 375s neither had a second lug. My Whitworth stock pattern (factory stock) has no second lug. Early vs late model?

I have a Winchester Classic Super Express in 416 rem. It does not have a 2nd recoil lug. After about 1000rds, I have had no issues. Although, the sheet metal mag box sure does take a beating with round nose solids. Had to replace it twice already.

My Safari Express in 375 on the other hand does have the second lug??? I wouldn't worry about it with the Taylor. Proper bedding of the action will be more than enough.

So they do vary.

Winchester used to put the barrel lug on blued/walnut .375 H&H, but not on the stainless/synthetic .375 H&H. I've had both.
I have a a standard model walnut and blue M70 Classic Winchester .416 Rem Mag, and it has the barrel lug.

I bought a barreled action Mark X .458WinMag, new from a sporting goods store in Alaska, that had the Whitworth markings on the barrel but no sights and no recoil lug.
Both the .458WinMag and .375 H&H Whitworth complete rifles I bought had the secondary barrel lug on them.

I don't think Dakota routinely puts barrel lugs on any of their rifles, including 450 Dakota.
And my 450 Dakota SIG Mauser M98 Magnum has no recoil lug on its skinny 25" barrel that is about the same contour as a No.4 sporter. That walnut stocked rifle weighs 9.5 pounds unloaded, express-iron-sighted.

If you care a great deal about your stock do the 2nd lug, if not just bed it and be happy

No need for cross bolts or barrel lug on a 416 Taylor or Rem if you do a good glass job, especially on laminate stocks

BUT as a matter of practice I do use a second recoil lug, cross bolts and a paint coat of glass on all rifles I build from .375 up..Its not that much work to add these additions and its perhaps good insurance, sure as hell can't hurt...I sure hate to see a high dollar hunt go south over a damaged rifle.

What is an easy, simple method of installing a second lug on the barrel?

quote:

Originally posted by Dan416:
What is an easy, simple method of installing a second lug on the barrel?

Duct tape.
What? You want safe for the barrel and effective function too?

I won't be needing a barrel lug on this .510/.338 Lapua Magnum 2.7" (500 Bateleur) since I am using a B&C Medalist M98 Mauser stock,
that I got from Cabela's for about $289:

quote:

Originally posted by Dan416:
What is an easy, simple method of installing a second lug on the barrel?

Not as easy as duct tape.... But the method I like best is to mill a shallow slot in the barrel and silver solder a rectangular block into it. Basically the same as the Withworth pictured above except that the recoil lug on the Whitworth is screwed on.

Milling slots in barrels could work with a barrel in hand. I don't have any experience either in its strength or what it does to barrel harmonics (accuracy). Maybe the affect is negligible.

The other approach requires forethought before getting the barrel. You can call up McGowen Barrels an order the "CZ Magnum" profile with the island for the rear open sight along with an 'under-island' that has a breech-facing flat notch cut into it. That becomes an integral barrel lug.

The island can be tapped for a screw that attaches to the forearm, as well, CZ-style. I am still playing with these to know the most accurate way to use such a screw.
a) bedded so that the screw ends up close to zero tension on forearm?
b) without using the screw at all?
c) with some amount of tension?
I've been using 416Rigbys with "a", but last summer I did a 500 AccRel with "b," just an lug receptor-restraint with epoxy and longitudinal reinforcing bolts in the barrel channel. (CZ uses a metal insert cut into the wood forearm as a restraint.) I don't get much opportunity to shoot and test but I hope to learn a little more this summer with the 500 AccR Nyati version.

I attach the barrel recoil lug several ways and they all work..you can silver solder it on, you can dovetail it on or both.

You can attach it to rear sight if the sight if the rear sight is a barrel band and this is nice..

I am sure that you could probably drill and tap two holes, and use torx screws and lock black loctite..

For a really big bore I like to dovetail it and silver solder it, then using an echon on the forend, drill and tap the recoil lug and screw it to the stock ala the old Win. pre 64 std. wt. but with a larger recoil lug. Whatever you do be sure the wood at the tang is releived and not making contact with metal.