I have commited myself to purchase a 416 Remington on a Winchester rebarreled, pre 64 action. The stock also is replaced with figured, uncheckered wood having two crossbolts. When it arrives I have three days to inspect it. Would you kindly tell me, an amateur, what should be included in that inapection?

Thank you,

Bill

Well the first thing I would check is to see if it was built of an H&H length action; if it was that is a big plus and I am not sure that you would need to check much else other than that it cocked, then went to both Safe positions, attempt to pull the trigger while on Safe and feeling for any clicking etc, then making sure it didn't fire after Safe was removed without a deliberate trigger pull.

If it isn't built on an H&H length action you need to see that it was opened up safely and soundly.

See whether it feeds reliably.

George

To clarify, although all pre-64 Model 70 actions are the same length, the actions used for .300 H&H and .375 H&H had the bridge cut away and a notch in the receiver ring, to allow the longer cartridges to load into the magazine. The receiver was also cut out to accomodate a longer magazine.

In addition to the above, you should check to see if the action headspaces properly. You should also check to see that both locking lugs on the bolt engage their recesses completely. You can black the rear of the lugs with a felt tip pen and then chamber a round or a headspace gauge.

At least part of the black should be rubbed off on both lugs. Making sure both lugs engage is part of a workman-like rebarrelling job.

Examine the bolt face to see if there are any marks left from primer leakage. If there are, it is likely the bolt face has not been trued.

Neither of these problems is a deal breaker, but they should affect the price.

Check list: does it fit you;do you like the appearance;is the barrel an appropriate length and weight; is the action unmodified, as in no repaired holes from prior sight installations;have a gunsmith check the headspace; is barrel stamped with caliber and name of installer;is there a proper recoil pad or can one be installed to correct length of pull;is the inletting well done for appearence and function; as previously stated, does trigger/safety mechanisim function correctly; is blueing done well without rounding corners,obscuring lettering; does it shoot well;why no checkering and how much will it cost to get it done. I am sure others will be able to add to this. If you do not like it, get a new M70 for about $1200. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by armorer:
Check list: does it fit you;do you like the appearance;is the barrel an appropriate length and weight; is the action unmodified, as in no repaired holes from prior sight installations;have a gunsmith check the headspace; is barrel stamped with caliber and name of installer;is there a proper recoil pad or can one be installed to correct length of pull;is the inletting well done for appearence and function; as previously stated, does trigger/safety mechanisim function correctly; is blueing done well without rounding corners,obscuring lettering; does it shoot well;why no checkering and how much will it cost to get it done. I am sure others will be able to add to this. If you do not like it, get a new M70 for about $1200. Good luck.

I would agree with virtually all of this, but feel the need to point out that most three day inspection periods do not include the right to test fire and I would not do so without specific authorization.

To save aggravation, why not buy a new M70 for $1000 and have it configured however you wish. This will save the worry over an altered or poorly made action. I would not want doubts when shooting something needing to be hit with a .416.

I would think the biggest item here is to check the feeding as was mentioned earlier. The 416 cartridge is quite a bit defferent than the 475. Make sure you use a few dummy rounds, at least three. After that is the obvious as also mentioned earlier.

My thanks to everyone who took the time to offer suggestions. I will try to follow this advice.

I have had a 416 M70 NIB safari classic in the past. And, a fair question is why don't I just buy another and avoid any potential problems associated with a pre 64 custom. To answer:

(1) To me the safari classic bolt worked roughly. I know this can be smoothed, but does it not indicate poor factory workmanship?

(2)I've noted that pre 64 custom DG rifles bring higher prices than do factory classic safaris. But this rifle is priced at what a used safari classic sells for.

(3) long time, respected AR members have indicated a preference for the pre 64 action oner thge newer controlled feed,

(4) I like pretty wood which this custom has.

(5) If I wish checkering, I can get it locally done for under $300 by a former Kimber checkerer.

Again, thank you for your helpful advice.

Bill

Hey, I have this exact rifle and love it. It was built on a Pre64 M70 action that was previously a 300H&H. Sits in a Pre64 Supergrade low comb stock that someone had added two crossbolts to. Had it rebarreled to 416 Rem and added iron sights from NECG. It feeds and shoots great and fits me perfectly. Hope you have the same luck with yours!

Tim

Tim : Thanks for the good wishes. Speaking of pre 64's, here in town is a former 300 H&H rechambered to 30-338 (yes, why?! why?!). Not rebarreled but restocked. $895 with scope , dies, and 50 rds.

Ny next rifle may be that.

Those Pre-64 M70 300 H&H and .375 H&H magazine boxes are Mauser-perfect for the full length H&H case.
They are broader internally, no deeper, than the M70 1990-vintage Classic boxes that came out of CT.
They hold 4-down in .375 H&H with no changing of springs or followers.
The factory seemed to know how to do a feed job Pre-64, polishing and shaping all the surfaces adequately to function properly, and that only got smoother with use of the Pre-64s.

The only negative about a post WWII Pre-64 M70 is the Springfield-type breech gas handling in case of a case rupture.
I wear "shooting glasses" with safety lenses.
The Classics post 1990 are safer in regard to gas handling, but their breeches might be more prone to a jamb if not properly polished and beveled,
especially around the extractor cut in the breech.
Avoid Classics finished on Monday AM or Friday PM at the CT factory, or get them slicked up by a gunsmith.

Pre-WWII steels might not be as strong, though that is only a general rule for most guns, I do not know the metallurgical specifics here.

If it is a 1950's M70 like the two I own,
be happy! Just wear your shooting glasses.
One of mine is two years older than me, and the other is 4 years younger than me.

Need a serial number check for date?
Just post a partial serial number here leaving off as many of the ending digits as you care too,
and "sumbuddy who know" will look it up for you.

I actually had a primer let go while shooting my pre-64 .375 H&H Mag.

No gas flew down the left lug raceway. All was handled by the bolt. No surprises in the least. Not a bit.

No drama.

Don't give it another thought, would be my advice.

Great action and smoother than melted butter.

Oh, a pierced primer, eh? A little smudge of soot came out?

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Oh, a pierced primer, eh? A little smudge of soot came out?

Ah, so you know what happened, do you?

Just about as much as you know how to use shooting sticks?

How many times do you need to be schooled before you learn?

Don't make me go there.

The pre-64 Winchester is an excellent action.

Despite all the squawking by Chicken Littles such as yourself to the contrary.

Mine and I survived more than a bit of soot - and all without the slightest difficulty.

Why not clarify how the primer "let go" inside the wonderful Pre-64 M70 action? How did you let one rip?
I think it was a fart.

Shooting stick technique?
Bad techniques abound amongst PHs and lawyers alike, well documented here at ar.com over the years.
Also some bad sticks hanging together by a thread of rubber are offered to tourist hunters sometimes, and one time is way too often.
Damn!

Speaking of sticks, I wish they would quit offering any kind of shooting sticks at the mere drop of a hat,
like when standing ten yards from a dead buffalo to pay the insurance shot.
How ridiculous was that?

I drilled that Tanzanian buffalo through the heart at 90 yards, threaded the needle between cow, calf, and vegetation in a momentary opening in time and space.
500 Mbogo's first kill.
Dead with one shot, a bucking lunge and 50-yard run, as usual,
just like my first cape buffalo in Botswana with a .416 Rigby.

Yes I did it off of sticks, after crawling on hands and knees in a gillie suit, but the rubber band on the sticks had not frazzled through just yet, for that shot.

Now, MR, please post the "cigarette-hold death-stick" technique for us, again.
That was a fun one!

Packard -vs- DeSoto ... amusing!

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:
Packard -vs- DeSoto ... amusing!

Did you mean "Blowhard -vs- Sotto voce?"

OK, enough of the flatulence.
Somebody had to mention the only known weakness of the Pre-64 M70 Winchester: gas handling
That is a minor fault, not enough to negate the supremacy of its positives.
I regard it and the true M98 Mauser as tops.

Here is my ultimate hunting rifle in .375 H&H on a Pre-64 M70 from 1958. The picture of it below is from 2001.
It was rebarreled from 300 H&H, by Walt Sherman of Florida, in 1991.
Synthetic stock and sights by Kelly Olson of Alaska in 1993.
Soon it will be rebarreled to .395 H&H by Rusty McGee of Kentucky, he is doing its custom barrel contouring job now, 2011: twenty years of gunsmithing.
It weighs 6.75 pounds dry.
An 8-pound dry .416 in a Pre-64 M70 would also be the cat's meow.
Also demonstrated in the photo is an important aspect of any shooting of the medium and big bore rifles from sticks, FOR ACCURACY!!!
Any rifle with any recoil and any drop of comb or pitch of butt:
Hold onto the forearm like you do for sighting offhand without sticks!!!
Do not hold the rifle between two fingers like a cigarette, and clutch the sticks with the rest of the hand!!!
Do not hold the sticks and rest the rifle in the sticks like a cigarette on the rim of the ashtray!!!
There are variations on good stick shooting technique, but they all involve a good grip of the forearm of the rifle with the offhand!!!

Now back to the wonderful Pre-64: In a word, sweet.