The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores What changes to a Win. 70 Safari Express 375 H&HGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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This is a wood stocked and blued rilfe that I will be modifiying as a back up DGR rifle and would appreciate your opinions about modifications, etc to the rifle. 1) Is after market bottom metal ie Sunny Hill worth the added costs? 2) Would a McMillan stock improve the handling and reduce wieght? 3) What model McMillan would you consider? I am setting a budget of roughly $1,200 for parts and gunsmith work...your thoughts on what to spend the money on would be appreciated. I already have mounts and scopes for the rifle. I also have a NIB M 70, 458 win. mag. to consider options for as well, same budget. Thanks for your input... jjs | ||
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Not to sound trite, but $1200 budget to me with that rifle would be $1100 for ammo/reloading supplies and $100 for the gas to and from the range for 700-1000 rounds down the barrel. I am making the assumption that it already has the one piece bottom metal. Leave good enough alone. I have one, and in broken in factory setup you could not buy it from me. | |||
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Bottom metal will not change the reliability. For a back up gun all I would do is bed it, do the trigger and check and tune the feeding if necessary. And put a good pad on it. This would apply to either M70. If you want a McMillan that's would be a personal choice but certainly not necessary. You migh loose a very small ammount of weight and on the 458 you don't want to looses any. | |||
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I would send it to a gunsmith that knows mod. 70's and have them check the feeding first. Install a williams extractor if it doesn't already have one. Trigger job and time the safety for easy operation. I would use Talley bases and have them installed by a gunsmith and have the receiver drilled out for 8X40 screws. Bedded in in Echol's mcmillan stock I like the after market bottom metals like the in the bow release Williams, etc. Maybe install a checkered bolt release. Maybe recontour the tang to a pre 64 style.. I'd like to see a pic of those when your done.. Sendero300>>>===TerryP | |||
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bed it, tune the trigger, make sure it feeds...then go shoot it. Rich | |||
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Here's a link to a 24hr campfire thread that has some pics of some full blown customs but take a look at Curly's rifle. Not a 375HH but you can get some ideas .. Win customs I have a 300 Weatherby in a classic and I'm thinking I might do a few mods.. New bottom metal, new hex head action screws Bedded in factory stock Williams extractor Checkered bolt release Probably going to get my local gunsmith to bed it and recrown the barrel and intall the checkered bolt release.... Sendero300>>>===TerryP | |||
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Mine compared to my old (1913) H&H 375H&H I would change the big meaty stock. I would weld the two piece bolt to one piece. I would change the magazine spring so it would feed 4 rounds down - mine only takes three down, which is ok but if I try and feed four, which could happen in a stress fire situation, it jams solid until I drop the floorplate and drop all the rounds out! Trigger bow magazine release. Cheers, Chris DRSS | |||
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I have a 2004 model (lefty) and all I did was rip out the rubber-like hot glue, bed it properly and install a Williams extractor. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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What is the deal with changing to Williams extractors on M70 Classics? Benefits, cost, and source? PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
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Williams extractors Sendero300>>>===TerryP | |||
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Hear, hear!! I just mentioned on another post that all I did to mine was a $40 trigger job and a Wolff mag spring. You don't need to touch anything else, unless you just have to put a stainless Williams extractor on it. (So far, I have successfully extracted around 1500 rounds with the factory extractor.) Mine has two dead buffalo and a lot of PG and one Canadian whitetail to it's credit, and I'm not going to mess with perfection. My stock fits perfectly and there is no reason I can see to change it or much of anything else. Spend your money on ammo or decent glass, or both. I will not sell mine unless I have a terminal illness, and then they might have to bury it with me... BTW, who needs four down? DR guys shoot two and reload. I can shoot four and reload. And have. | |||
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I would call Mark Penrod and tell him what you want and your budget. I would have him change the extacter and bottom metal. The Williams is very nice and reasonable price. Have him glass bed it and make it feed reliable with a Rem 700 mag spring. I would also have him put a recoil pad. Good luck! | |||
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I have a stainless Mod 70 375 H&H converted to a 375 wea. I did quite a bit of what you suggested intially. 1) Bought a McMillan drop box fiberglass stock with a Pachymer decelerator at 13.75 LOP. ($400.00+) Added stainless Sunnyhill bottom metal ($400.00+) Williams Stainless extractor ($40.00 or less??) Barrel band ling swivel ($50.00) NECG barrel band Masterpiece front sight ($125.00) Brockman / Talley bases with Brockman peep Did my own trigger adjustment Action was honed and trued when reamed to 375 Wea. Make sure if you add a Williams extractor that a competent gunsmith fit it. Sometimes they are too tight and will not allow the rim of the cartridge slide up on the bolt face. I really like this gun! | |||
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Agree completely! I am a bit of a romantic when it comes to hunting Africa but it is my oppinion that if the stock is not wood it doesnt belong in Africa. Dont get me wrong most of my rifles are built on mcmillan stocks, they are the best money can buy but a 375, especially a 375 used in Africa should be WOOD!  6x NFR Qualifier NFR Champion Reserve World Champion Bareback Rider PRCA Million Dollar Club 02' Salt Lake Olympic Qualifier and an all around good guy! | |||
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Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. The rifle already has one pc. bottom metal and the stainless steel extractor so I am good to go on all that... I am going to have the rifle gone through by a gunsmith most likely have the rifle bed, check and adjust feeding as needed, mount scope with Talley products, put a larger white bead on the front sight, and secure the sights as may be needed. From there I am going to let the gunsmith tell me what may be required for function. Any further thoughts, please let me know. Thanks again, jjs | |||
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No question a white bead will be advantageous. NECG has some good offerings. I have one on my .458 and it almost glows in the dark. | |||
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I disagree.I have one on my 308 and have a hard time seeing it when I raise my rifle and it's against a grey sky for a background or when its against a light colored background.I have never had any issue seeing a gold bead or any tiny bead. | |||
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Opinions vary...(jeffeoso) I don't anticipate shooting a .458 against a gray background. More likely against a black background, as in Cape buffalo. I have held it against a gray background and the sillhouette of the post and 4mm bead contrasts nicely. Think I'll keep it. | |||
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When you shoot at a buff,the bead will not suddenly appear on the buff.You will most likely start to raise the rifle as the barrel is pointing downward and start shouldering the rifle,simultanouesly searching for the bead and trying to get it in the center of your rear sight.All along it will be up against some background most of which will be bleached by the african sun or overexposed.How you will accomplish this with a white bead I can not understand.BTW,I've been using a white bead at the range during the last three weeks and had difficulty seeing it against my target etc.. colored it in with a Bic pen and groups shrunk.What you could do, to get in a little white, is to paint a tiny dot in the center of a black bead the way CZ does.Making a bead large and completely white makes no sense,IMO. | |||
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Most of you that know anything about me then you know it's Winchester or stay at home! When I used to think I could shoot iron sights I love the Ghost ring and a post up front, with a little white line on it so I could pick it up! This allowed me to shoot a little better with irons than a bead. With my eyesight as it is these days I have dedicated my iron sight shooting to 25 yds and in, and all my Winchesters are being outfitted with NECG front barrel band sights, and that big fat white flip up bead (normally gets a little spot of Super Glue to keep it from flipping down  ) and a NECG rear barrel mounted sight. This is working good for me, if I keep ranges for this limited.  But this is just what is working good for me. Shootaway Pal, I am going to be honest with you, no offense meant, but you might need to do a little more homework. When you throw your rifle up it should come up instantly and that front sight or even scope cross hairs should be on your animal, only tiny minor adjustments from there. If you are having to search and find the bead, find the rear, and find the animal a little homework is needed. Double triple make sure your rifle is NOT LOADED--have a target in your room, anything will work--throw that rifle to your shoulder and on that target a 1000 times, more if needed until it becomes second nature and not having to search for anything---above all concentrate on the target itself, the front bead will find it. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Michael,looking at your sight,I think I understand why you find it easier to shoot with and that has nothing to do with the white but the gigantic metal ring that surrounds it.Also,I have nothing against doing shooting homework because that's what I am all about! The size of that sight will not allow you to shoot any game at 75yds+ becuase it's so large that it will cover the animal. | |||
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X2. Rather than send it to a gunsmith to determine if it feeds properly or needs some help best to determine that yourself, by shooting it - and not from the bench. The gunsmith won't fire the number of rounds through it to really know if there are issues, and may not have your hunting ammo to shoot either. Shoot it starting with a full mag, start with one down, then two... Cycle very slow through very fast... Shoot off hand, kneeling, off sticks... This is practice for your trip, which we all should be doing anyway. In the process, you will determine if your rifle needs feeding help. BTW, make sure you use bullets you will use on your trip, at least in a sufficient quantity to ensure they feed. A spitzer may feed while, say, a North Fork cup point might not. After you know they rifle will feed properly, cheap RN or spitzers are fine for parctice. Same for the 458wm. One other thing to check for on any M70, and that is to make sure the safety doesn't bind when it is rearward if the bolt takes a knock on the bottom of the knob. This happened to Keith Attecheson when a buff charged and near killed his wife, Nicki. It took Keith an immeasurably important moment to determine why his safety wouldn't move from rearward, locked bolt to fire. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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Shootaway Yeah, big sight is easy for me to pick out, no doubt! Right again, very limited as far as range, and won't be doing any decent 3 shot groups with it for sure. At 25 yds are so I do real well with it, 50 yds well I can hit a elephant I reckon, maybe even a buffalo, 75 yds or 100 yds, I might hit a barn if it was big enough!  JPK Agree with you one can check out feed and function on the range oneself far better than any gunsmith can do! The rest is spot on too! Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Thanks for the input and tip on the safety. I have already run "dummy rounds" through both rifles and they need some minor modifications, etc to handle the bullets I want to use, the 458 win mag in particular. I am going to send my "dummy rounds" to the Gunsmith, these include the bullets I intend on using. I have been down this road a couple of times albeit not with Model 70s but CZs. I have very limited knowledge, in regards to Model 70s, hence my questions about what needs attention. Going to send them off to Roger Farrell next week to get this thing going. Thanks again and if anything comes to mind let me know. Best, jjs | |||
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Hi Michael, I really like those sights and the big white bead...With my eyes and the nature of Buffalo hunting, I have to have a scoped rifles in QD rings. The big white bead is perfect if the need for self defense arises. Thanks, Jim | |||
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Jim I like those sights pretty good myself. I too used a scoped rifle for everything, 1.5X5 Leupold and QRW rings. Big sights there if you want them, and I would think work pretty good, never had to use them however in the field! You can go over and see a couple of rifles working with that setup see below; http://forums.accuratereloadin...4711043/m/3981035711 Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Definitely put the safety on the rearward position and give the bottom of the bolt handle a sharp whack. Then try to move the safety to fire. If it binds, have it fixed while its away! BTW, one issue with the Recknegel/NECG flip up night sight, as shown on Michael's rifle, is that the white night sight is concentric with the brass bead. So, if you properly nestle the white night sight bead into express sight V, you will shoot high! (If your rifle is sighted using the brass bead, but not if you glue them up and only use the white bead, as Michael relates.) The difference is noticable at 50yds.) JPK Free 500grains | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores What changes to a Win. 70 Safari Express 375 H&H
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