416, 458, 470, and 500 AR - the line of AR rounds

08 May 2010, 03:53

Head Trauma

416, 458, 470, and 500 AR - the line of AR rounds - dialup warning

With the new/old M70 Safari Classics due out soon, I'm thinking that one in 458WM re-chambered in 458AR would be a very cost effective way to get improved performance wihout all the extra work involved in a 458 Lott conversion.

Who should I send the rifle to to get it re-chambered?

Can I order the dies directly from Hornady?

Thanks all for your help, Russ Green.

08 May 2010, 06:21

jeffeosso

Jim Kobe will have the reamer and gauges, whenever he needs them...

call hornady and talk to Lonnie and order a set .. if you do, let me know, and I'll order a spare

thanks for thinking of me

09 May 2010, 02:16

clintsfolly

Hornaday is supposed to make my dies i 8-10 weeks you may get to jump in if you say some thing about it. like my 458AR just need to shoot it more Clint

23 August 2010, 21:07

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by tanz2007:
Finally got some pictures of my 500 AR barreled action. Just need a stock, xbolts, wrist pin and bedding. I'm ordering a Ruger African factory stock for it. I'M HAPPY!!!

23 August 2010, 21:54

michael458

That is a very fine looking rifle! Deserves better than a Ruger Stock!

Michael

http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.

06 September 2010, 20:51

Urodoji

Have you tried Trail Boss powder and .475" pistol bullets with the .470 AR?

06 September 2010, 21:02

jeffeosso

not exactly .. i have tried the 400gr speer golddot and h335 .. for GREAT hunting loads!

12 September 2010, 22:08

jeffeosso

rhino 15/ morma 203B
458 AR data - 22" barrel

quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
actually QL was quite accurate. Case cap was 114 grs in fireformed 375 RUM brass compared to 110,5 grs in non fireformed RUM brass (the loads and velocities I mentioned above)

85 grs gave 2222 fps
83 grs gave 2152 fps
That was with the Hornady DGS bullets
83 grs behind the 500 grs Barnes Banded Solid gave 2215 fps

Will try 87, 88 and 89 grs Rhino 15 (same as 203B) later with the DGS and 84 grs with the Barnes Banded...
After that I will try some faster N 202 / Rhino 14 powder

quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
New data with RHINO 14 powder. About the same as Norma 202.

500 grs Hornady DGS solids:
85grs - 2274 fps
86 grs - 2294 fps
87 grs - 2324 fps
88 grs - 2345 fps

500 grs Barnes Banded Solids:
84 grs - 2295 fps
85 grs - 2341 fps

No highpressure signs at all - though I know I am closing in...

Have settled on 86 grs R14 / DGS solid and 84 grs/ for the Barnes solid - both giving around 2300 fps..

Ulrik

quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
tried some fireforming loads yesterday with Rhino15 Powder - about the same as N 203B..
82 grs gave 2200 fps with 500 grs Hornady DGS. Very mild pressures. Wil try 83, 84 and 85 grs next time. I am pretty sure that 2300 - 2350 fps will be very easy to acheive...

13 September 2010, 03:34

DWright

Bolts on the wrong side!

13 September 2010, 04:19

jeffeosso

great thing about rugers -- the bolt comes on the otherside!

13 September 2010, 21:26

jeffeosso

bump for duke nukem

16 September 2010, 07:08

ptaylor

A while back I read an article in rifle magazine about Phil Shoemaker and his 510/505 gibbs. From that point on I've always dreamed of owning a .510. At first I lusted after a 500a2 or 505gibbs necked up to .510 but after shooting my 458ar I realized I'm not cutout for the crazy power of those full length rigby rounds. I think I found the perfect fit with the 500ar and after 3 years here it is. Can't wait to give it a try. I'm more excited about shooting the 50cal APIT than anything. I checked the feeding with 2 dummies with 600gr woodleighs and it was perfect. The only thing I'm worried about is the weight, its light, lighter than my 458 so I might put a scope and some lead in the stock. Here are the specs: I bought a new 7mag action in stainless, sent it to mcgowen and they sent me back a barreled action with 1x10 twist, it then went to gene williams for the finishing touches, cerkote the barrel, barrel band sling swivel and NCEG front sight, barrel recoil lug with a screw though the stock, bedded from front to rear. This is it the final chapter in my big bore quest only thing left to do are take it to africa and put a suppressor on it.

16 September 2010, 15:40

jeffeosso

very Cool, Peyton
the top loads aren't going to be alot of fun in a lighter gun ... but you might be surprised at the shootability of the "merely" 500 jeffe/500 nitro loads ... LOTS of guys first ride on mine have been 570s at 2150, mas o menos

16 September 2010, 15:58

michael458

Jeffe

When you put the right bullets in the end of the case, one does not need more than 2100-2150 fps to do a jam up job on anything and any mission asked of it. You just don't need more than that!

Michael

16 September 2010, 17:05

buffalo

You r right Doc M - 2100 fps is enough with the right bullets. Even 2050 is enough if you use a 577 NE with Sams 725 grs #13 Bastard Bullet..

But I will still load my 458 AR to 2300 fps with the 500 grs Hornady DGS and the 500 grs Barnes Banded Solids for my upcoming ele hunt. I leave the 24. Sept for Chete and have 3 PAC/management bulls on quota.....

16 September 2010, 18:57

ptaylor

how are you 500ar guys flaring case mouths for cast bullets?

Jeffe, what should the COAL with the 50 cal APIT be?

16 September 2010, 20:17

michael458

quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
You r right Doc M - 2100 fps is enough with the right bullets. Even 2050 is enough if you use a 577 NE with Sams 725 grs #13 Bastard Bullet..

But I will still load my 458 AR to 2300 fps with the 500 grs Hornady DGS and the 500 grs Barnes Banded Solids for my upcoming ele hunt. I leave the 24. Sept for Chete and have 3 PAC/management bulls on quota.....

You will be very well armed Buffalo! The ele's are in big trouble no doubt about it. How long is the barrel on your 458 AR????? I hope it's a proper 20 inches or so? The 458 AR can easy do 20 inches!

M

16 September 2010, 20:27

buffalo

Well its looong.. - 21,5 inches... And weight is 7,7 Ibs. You remember the reason about deciding the barrel length as we talked about earlier

16 September 2010, 21:05

jeffeosso

peyton,
4.128 or there abouts

16 September 2010, 21:33

michael458

quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
Well its looong.. - 21,5 inches... And weight is 7,7 Ibs. You remember the reason about deciding the barrel length as we talked about earlier

Well the weight is right anyway! Yeah Yeah!

M

21 September 2010, 09:04

ptaylor

Well 90gr of AA2520 made for some easy shooting 600gr softs and APIT's. I'll try and get some more photos and run them over the chrono in a couple weekends I doubt they are over 2K fps. It was a blast!! Thanks again jeffe for the design, the 458AR and 500AR have brought me much joy. The APIT's at dusk were especially entertaining.

07 October 2010, 08:52

tanz2007

quote:
Originally posted by michael458:
That is a very fine looking rifle! Deserves better than a Ruger Stock!

Michael

I totally agree but my bank account doesn't

That's life eh!!!

14 October 2010, 05:40

ShortandFat

Gents

Con and I have found a bullets maker that can turn up some nice MONO metal 305g .458 projectiles with a big hex hollow point.

Since I already have the 500 AccRel Shooting 535g projectiles and the 600 OK nearly finished I want something light and quick handling

I'm going to cut my 458 AccRel back to 20in put the NECG banded front sight on it and set it up like a quick handling hammer of thor.

Anybody else out there trimmed their 458 AccRel to 20.

Jeffe you experimented with light 302g projectiles, how did that go.

regards
S&F

14 October 2010, 05:58

mstarling

This has been a genuinely remarkable thread! Congratulations to all ... especially Jeffe

One small question (and honestly not a self serving one) ...

How many of the rifles chambered for the AR cartridges have taken heavy game in Australia, the great Bear in North America or Russia, or large game in Africa?

14 October 2010, 07:04

jeffeosso

Joe,
we used the 302 leigh bullets .. big hex hole in them, and they returned better than moa, out to 275, 23" barrel, and SMOKES hogs and exotics . i wouldn't use them on your buffalo or feral cattle.. or bantang .. but just about another lighter built than those, including eland, elk, and moose...

Mike,
thanks ... the returns are all you guys, for the support and belief in the rounds.
there's a 458 AR in africa, right now .. ask buffalo when he gets back...

biggest thing i've kilt with one of mine is a 300+ sow

14 October 2010, 07:17

ptaylor

I shot a 3/4" thick cast water pipe with mine last weekend. Those APIT are impressive, I'm headed out again next weekend. I promise to get picks of the charging pipe. I haven't even shot any of the woodleighs yet those APITs are too much fun. You get two bangs, one when the gun goes off the other when the APIT hits. I shot several into a 5'x5'x5' block of concrete, you could see the penetrator stuck in about 3". Half the time the tracers kept burning while stuck in the concrete........AWESOME!!

14 October 2010, 18:00

jro45

I own the CZ 458 Lott and it can and does shoot
a 500 solid at 2363 FPS. I have worked up safe
ly to this point using a slow burning powder.

14 October 2010, 18:08

clintsfolly

so far my 458accrl has been used on a 265lbs hog and a 650gr. starling. but the 3rd week in Nov hope to use it on a dangerous whitetails deer!!! Clint

15 October 2010, 18:07

buffalo

quote:
Originally posted by jeffeosso:
there's a 458 AR in africa, right now .. ask buffalo when he gets back...

Im back

Will post some more details soon on the terminal thread by DocM
But in short:
Worked perfekt. Nice 7,7 Ibs light rifle to carry and super effect and penetration on ellies. Only lengthswise shots were recovered

Used 500 grs DGS and Barnes banded solids. Both worked equally well. Am now beginning to think of a 500AR in addition to my 458AR

Just for the fun of it... Only thing that worries me is mag capacity. If I use a Ruger Hawkeye rifle - what to do / change to get 3 down + 1 up???

15 October 2010, 22:58

ptaylor

There was somebody on this board that made up a mag extension for his ruger 500ar. do a quick search for it, it was a recent post. To do 3 down it actually looked pretty good, it only extended below the stock ~0.5". He made up another extension that did 4 down and it looked a little long. I offered to buy one from him but never got a response. I would want one just to increase the weight. 2 down and 1 up is plenty for me.

Here is the post: http://forums.accuratereloadin...631090731#9631090731

But the pictures are gone.

16 October 2010, 18:55

ShortandFat

MAKING YOUR 416,458,470 AccRel a 3 + 1 on a Ruger action

It's been on my mind ever since I built the 458 and I've always wanted my gun to be a 3 +1 so I finally set about making it happen today.

Here's a quick rundown on what I did.

1st I machined down the rails on the floor plate, this wasn't to hard I just ran it forward and back on a sanding belt....I could get a few thou more out of these rails if I need to.

2nd I cut windows in the sides of the magazine box as per factory issued Remington RUM boxes to accomodate the wider improved shoulder of the AccRel case. I did this with a Dremel and small cutting wheel. I'm not entirely sure I needed to do this but Remington in their wisdom do it with their RUM rifles and we are using RUM brass, so hey why not.

3rd I needed the magazine box to be wider, so I used a hack saw and cut open the rear of the magazine box, it was easy I just followed the join. I have NO intention of rewelding it back together because I've noticed many manufactures today don't see a need to join the magazine box at the rear , Remington SPS's and Howa's come to mind.

Additionally I took a little metal away from the left and right sides of the center section of the box to allow it to sit wider in the small recess at the rear of the action magazine inletting, you might notice the small sections that I filed out and squared up.

4TH I stretched the mag box out a little to the point that it needs to be squeezed pretty firmly to fit back into the action inletting, you might be able to see how wide it sits after being cut open.

One more thing I did and I don't know if this will make a difference, I had to replace my follower after trying to alter the original. The follower I have now is the Ruger RSM Rigby follower, it's ever so slightly different, but still JUST fits into the standard action and has not been modified at all.

OH and lastly I did notice the follower spring will fit back onto the floor plate either way BUT one side makes it sit lower than the other, you will need to check this when putting the spring back

Good Luck.

regards
S&F

18 October 2010, 06:20

Paz

Mates looks good, might have to attack mine

.

Paz

22 October 2010, 12:32

Paz

Since i am too lazy to go back through 20 pages looking, anyone got some load data for 300 grain pills out of the 458 AccRel?

I have some experimental pills here i am going to try over the weekend.

Paz

22 October 2010, 17:03

jeffeosso

pm sent

23 October 2010, 09:39

Con

jeffe,
Well ... 83gr AR2207 (H4198) behind a prototype monolithic hardly kicked at all.

Before and after being put into wet phone-books:

The 'kink' half way down the ogive has now been fixed. The above load at 25yards got us 16" penetration in tightly packed phone-books and 247gr remaining from 300gr start weight. I think paz is playing with a slightly lighter version.

Gotta love a 45cal that can reach out like a 375H&H with like recoil.

Cheers...
Con