I can shoot a 10.5 LB .470 NE with full power loads all day long from a standing position. From the bench I am done after 6 rounds or so.

My .404 I can fire 20 rounds from the bench without to much trouble. I really am starting to enjoy my .404.

In a .458 Lott with maxed out loads I am at the limit of my capability. I load the .458 lott to 2150 FPS with a 500 gr bullet and it's a whole different animal and much nicer to shoot.

I've played with a .500 Jeffery some and would need some practice to get comfortable with it. As far as the fast .45's like the .450 Rigby and the .460 Weatherby, I don't like them much and find them to be abusive to shoot when loaded to capacity. I've played with a .500 NE a bit and didn't find it to be that much different from a .470.

For buffalo hunting a guy really doesn't need more than a .416 or a .404 in fact I think a scoped .40 of some kind is probably the perfect buffalo gun. I really enjoy hunting buff with an iron sighted heavy bolt or double but a scoped rifle is a more versatile tool for buff no doubt. If a guy is hunting lots of elephant then something with more smack may well be justified.

I've shot so far only with my 375 H & H Magnum, but Ceska, the 458 Lott has been waiting to be used a couple of years ago hehe. I think I'm going to reload that ammo and start slowly to reach the 2300 fps if the powder is sold in Spain possible to reach that speed. My rifle has 25 "barrel, I do not think this is the problem.

Regards,

Oscars.

Surestrike is spot on IMO...I don't even have a problem with shooting Elephant or Hippo with the 416 Rem or 404 Jefferys, none at all..I have seen too many elephant and Hippo killed with a 375 H&H, 375 flanged and 9.3 to get too excited over not owning a 505 or its ilk..Already been that 50 caliber route and I'm paying the doctor for that in cortazone shots in my neck and shoulder.

Except maybe for elephant--and I emphasize the word "maybe"--the largest bore I will ever hunt with is the .375 Belted Rimless Nitro Express (H&H).

Anything bigger just adds recoil and, no matter who you are, you will shoot more accurately from the offhand position with rifles that recoil less. If elephants are on the menu, I might also take along a .458 Win. Might.

BTW: Anyone who gets a scope cut either does not have a well-fitting rifle, does not know how to mount the scope, does not know how to shoot, or all three. Bigger bores do not fix not knowing how to shoot.

Indy,
Without knowing you or your experience with big bores, or your shooting history.
I do know how to mount a scope. I know how and have the tools to level and torque. I know how to adjust for eye relief. And I believe I know how to shoot. I am very comfortable with the big bores I own and have put enough rounds through them that everything is normal and comfortable when I shoot them. I am not recoil sensitive. Can and have on more than several occasions put, off the bench, 150 rounds out of my .375 H & H's, 100 rounds out of my .416's, 40 rounds with both my .470 and my .458 Lott. My .470 and my .458 Lott both have proper eye relief and fit. they also have what I consider a tremendous amount of "come back" due to recoil. I have no trouble with the .375, .416 (rem or rigby) nor the .458 win mag and it is an inch too short for me. When you step up to the, what I consider the really big bores, all that goes out the window. Not trying to be argumentative, honestly, but I wonder if you have ever shot a .458 Lott scoped off the bench.
As I said, not trying to start sh..............

I don't care how well a rifle fits you or anything else, sometimes it just happens, you get careless and get in a position that you probably shouldn't but the targets there looking at you so you pull the trigger and get whopped in the eye...It should not happen but it does..

I got a dandy one time on a steep uphill shot and my gun wouldn't mount right but I could see that big buff peeking at me over the cliff so I just took a big ole deep breath and pulled the trigger. I ate the scope, lost a ton of blood, and actually lost most of that bull to a pride of hungry mean Lions..but they allowed me the head and horns when they finished their meal. I gave most of that bull back to Africa, Sometimes it happens and if one hunts long enough he will take a lick in the forehead, and not necessairly with a big bore, before all is said and done...

quote:

Originally posted by pagosawingnut:
Indy,
Without knowing you or your experience with big bores, or your shooting history.
I do know how to mount a scope. I know how and have the tools to level and torque. I know how to adjust for eye relief. And I believe I know how to shoot. I am very comfortable with the big bores I own and have put enough rounds through them that everything is normal and comfortable when I shoot them. I am not recoil sensitive. Can and have on more than several occasions put, off the bench, 150 rounds out of my .375 H & H's, 100 rounds out of my .416's, 40 rounds with both my .470 and my .458 Lott. My .470 and my .458 Lott both have proper eye relief and fit. they also have what I consider a tremendous amount of "come back" due to recoil. I have no trouble with the .375, .416 (rem or rigby) nor the .458 win mag and it is an inch too short for me. When you step up to the, what I consider the really big bores, all that goes out the window. Not trying to be argumentative, honestly, but I wonder if you have ever shot a .458 Lott scoped off the bench.
As I said, not trying to start sh..............

pagosawingnut,

I have never shot a .458 Lott off the bench. I have shot a .500 NE off the bench but it was not scoped. I have shot hundreds of rounds through a .458 Winchester, including many off the bench, and including 500 grain bullets at a chronographed 2200 fps. I shot one 500 grain bullet at 2376 fps off the bench (the Hornady manual said a load one grain heavier would only hit 2200--it was wrong--I fired no further shots with this load). At no time have I been hit by the scope.

I believe in selecting a scope with good eye relief (my .458 uses a VXIII 1.5-5), mounting it as far forward as possible without vignetting, and using a different bench technique than with lesser rifles. I sit much more upright and I hold the rifle firmly with both hands.

Also, I shoot off the bench as little as possible, usually only when verifying zero or working up loads.

The only time I whanged my eye was with a .300 Wby I had never fired before. Another shooter gut shot a pronghorn and asked me to take his rifle and get it. I lay down prone and shot at a steep uphill angle and "wham."

In general, I think it's best to use a lesser rifle in many cases. People talk about being "less recoil sensitive" but the facts of life are that everyone, no matter how sensitive, will shoot closer to the aiming point with a rifle that kicks less. Since my .458 Winchester will adequately penetrate anything that walks with a 450 grain bullet, I cannot see any reason to shoot heavier bullets or shoot a Lott.

Indy,
I have a 2.5 x 8 Leupold on my .458WM, a Schmidt & Bender 1x4 on my .470 NE and neither have ever touched me. The .458 Lott is a different story. a 500 gr moving 2260 in a 9 lb rifle comes back just a bit more and that's all it takes. I shoot all my rifles off the bench to work up loads and don't use a lead sled. the scope cuts are minimal, just blood. I have never tried a .500 but will have a set of barrels before next season for my Blaser S2 fitted. Am anxious to try it. As I said, Not trying to start sh..... I just don't agree with you. You are right, it takes a different shooting technique to shoot big bores off the bench. I am in the process of making a stand up shooting bench with elbow rests and a padded rail for the rifle for when I shoot big bores off the bench. Don't need it as I think I have reached my personal limit off the bench with the .458 Lott. I've seen guys get scope eyed with a .375 H & H offhand because they have never shot anything near that. I consider the .375 one of the finest calibers out there and shoot near to 2000 rounds per year out of all of mine. I felt fortunate that I only got 11 scope cuts off the bench with the Lott out of approximately 450 off the bench over 3 1/2 months. Fortunately for me, I had all my loads worked up 2 months before my hunt in Zim this year as I had a motorcycle wreck 5 weeks before my hunt and could not have done the load development in time had I not completed it.

I use a lead sled from the bench with my 500 Jeffery (yes I'm a wussy( for load development (which I'm done with thank God and initial sight in). I finish sight in from the bench without the sled. I have about 400 full power loads through my 500 Jeffery. Less than 100 of them with the lead sled, the majority of the rest taken offhand. If the lead sled breaks my pretty walnut stock, I'll get a synthetic from CZ like Rip did and have the metal CeraKoted. Beats the hell out of an epic shoulder bruise (which I did inflict on myself before I learned better). To each his own.

Most lead sled damage comes from piling on 500 lbs or lead,dirt or hammer heads on the tray..A little common since prevents damage..

I use a International Bench Rest that takes up recoil with springs, you can change the springs out for different tensions but I have never done this..

With the big 500s I leave about a two or three inch gap in the forend tie down to allow a tad of upward motion It has worked for years for me and kills all the recoil..With the 40 calibers and under I tie the barrel down snug with the forearm strap...

pagosawingnut,

Your stand-up rest would be just the thing for shooting big bores when working up loads. I made my own shooting sticks tripod with three bamboo sticks and some inner tube. I found that I'd just as soon shoot off the bench with the rifles I shoot. Lead sleds change the point of impact so I don't use them.

Most of my shooting is in matches with 70 to 115 grain 6mm bullets or 69 to 80 grain .223 bullets. The skills are readily transferrable to any rifle and it costs less. If I had a rifle that cut my eye 8 times, I'd send it down the road. My .458 weighs 10.3 pounds with sling and scope and my .375 weighs 10.6 pounds.

I'm a firm believer in less recoil for hunting accuracy. It's pretty hard NOT to kill an elephant with a chest shot if you can put your first North Fork 300 or 450 grain bullet in a dinner-plate sized group.

I like Indy's comments about sitting up straighter on the bench and holding on more conscientiously than with light bores.

for me, the big concern is eye-relief with a scope. How someone can sit at a bench and take multiple cuts over the eye is beyond me. He could certainly go to a larger calibre if he had a decent scope. Try the Nikon Slughunter. It has decent glass AND a 5" eyerelief through all of its 1.65 to 5 power range. that takes the worry out of shooting and allows one to rock with the rifle.

I'm waiting on a lightweight 500 AccRel to arrive. I'll be putting a 5" eye relief scope on it, so it should be pretty nice.

quote:

Originally posted by 416Tanzan:
I like Indy's comments about sitting up straighter on the bench and holding on more conscientiously than with light bores.

for me, the big concern is eye-relief with a scope. How someone can sit at a bench and take multiple cuts over the eye is beyond me. He could certainly go to a larger calibre if he had a decent scope. Try the Nikon Slughunter. It has decent glass AND a 5" eyerelief through all of its 1.65 to 5 power range. that takes the worry out of shooting and allows one to rock with the rifle.

I'm waiting on a lightweight 500 AccRel to arrive. I'll be putting a 5" eye relief scope on it, so it should be pretty nice.

Oh, I forgot--
how much power in a dangerous game rifle?

I like about 6000 foot pounds for allaround in a 416 Rigby though I'm planning on 6500 to 7000 for the 500 AccR. I don't see the need for 8000-9000 footpounds, so I didn't build a 500 Mbogo or use the capacity of a 505 Gibbs.

I see no need for any scope on a big bore rifle from the 458 Lott on up..If you think you need more range then use a receiver sight with the aparture taken out..but the shallow V is good for as far as I intend to shoot a 458 Lott or 505 Gibbs for instance..

Those that whine about not being able to see irons, need to visit their local eye doc..I wear bifocals and I can still shoot irons. If one must scope, and many youngsters can only shoot scopes these days, should shoot a 375 or .416 Rem...They have all the power one needs to kill an elephant..Elephants are btw skin and bone and blood, they die, they are not milsurp tanks or half tracks contrary to popular belief!! I go now to my horse that's tied up outside to make my get away before the lynch mob catches me!

My upper limit is my 458 Lott and 470 NE. After shooting them a while I really enjoy shooting the 450-400 and 375!

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
My upper limit is my 458 Lott and 470 NE. After shooting them a while I really enjoy shooting the 450-400 and 375!

I like to hunt, and for me that means being ready for non-dangerous game at various ranges with the one gun that I would carry. 250 yard antelope shot still needs to be a done deal and easy, which means a cliabre that is capable of quite a bit more distance. Everything is a compromise, so for me that means coming down to 2600 fps loads or even 2500 fps. We'll see what CEB can cook up with those Raptors.

"Power" may be too subjective to pin down.
I don't know if power is directly related to recoil but it looks like some here are drawing that conclusion.
I have always thought that felt recoil has much to do with stock build as anything else.
I think my 425WR recoils about as much as I am comfortable with but it does have a steel butt plate. IMO, that makes it more noticeable than any other gun I have. I bet that with a good pad it would be quite pleasant.
Not as powerful as my 500Jeff but more in the felt recoil department.