On my next elephant hunt I will be taking my Heym DR in 450 NE. I'd like to pair it up with a lighter scoped bolt rifle. My intention for the light rifle would be for use on plains game and buffalo,....and in a pinch,..elephant if something were to happen to my bigger rifle.


I'm having a custom 375 built on a Dakota action, but I have not decided which 375. Initially I was thinking 375 Weatherby, but now I'm not so sure. The 375 H&H seems wayyyyyy more practical with ammo much cheaper and much more available. I'm also guessing resell would be better on a 375 H&H. Basically my brain says 375 H&H, but my heart says 375 Weatherby.

I've never owned a 375 of any caliber. Does a 375 make sense for a light rifle on a Ele/Buff hunt, or should I step up to a 416??

Thanks for the advice.

375 Weatherby will shoot the H&H casing. If you're heart is set on the Weatherby chambering go for it and just know that you can use the H&H cartridges if your ammo doesn't arrive.

I'll let someone with more elephants and buffalo under their belt comment on the 375's effectiveness. I certainly found it adequate for buffalo, but man did the 375 bullet seem small next to my PH's 425 WR round.

With my limited experience on two DG safaris, one with a .458 and one with a .375, I think the .375 is the only rifle I'll take next time. As near as I can tell, results are the same with equivalent bullet placement.

Why do people think buff are so hard to kill anyway? A buff weighs about 1800 pounds, less than an Alaska moose or an American bison, though fouler tempered. An elephant, by contrast, can weigh 14,000 pounds.

TBD,
I took my 375Flanged loaded with CEB #13 solids as back up on my last elephant hunt. I think, for the purposes you describe, a lightweight back up gun and for other stuff, the 375 in any iteration is fine and I'd go with the one that makes you happy - the WBY version.
Good luck and stay well

As long as they are carried over in your luggage and never actually ever used, either 375 is perfect for the job.

quote:

As long as they are carried over in your luggage and never actually ever used, either 375 is perfect for the job.

LOL!

What Sevens said. Go with the Wby. You'll have to take headstamped WBY ammo, but you can shoot HH with no problems. If you reload, use your fireformed brass for practice. There IS an appreciable difference between the 2 cartridges. If you're staring up at the business end of an elephant, I'm sure you would want any advantage available.

Although some pompous personalities who've responded to this post may denigrate the .375 caliber, it has performed very well on elephant many thousands of times in the past as well as in the present day. Send a personal post to people like Harry Selby, Karl Stumpfe, Karl Rabe, Ganyana, Ray Atkinson, Saeed or any other hunter/professional hunter with years of experience and they will invariably state the .375 will get the job done. It would not be my primary choice for elephant nor would it be the choice of many who strictly pursue elephant. It will, however, perform well if the shot is correct. That is true for any caliber. I can say, without any passion, that the .375 H&H magnum is a cartridge with an amazing amount of penetration and killing power and would be perfect as a choice for a backup gun for any African animal hunted, especially with the choice of premium bullets and powders manufactured today. Be prudent and disregard statements ejaculated by people soliciting their wares on this forum. They speak with forked tongue and perhaps may not be able to handle anything greater than a .416 Taylor for their DG hunting.

Thanks,

jfm

My final safari was for a trophy elephant. I carried a second rifle for plains game,never occurred to me it was to be a backup for my big gun which was a 416 Rigby. It was strictly for plains game and performed with aplomb. It was a 7x57 I had built specifically for that purpose. I'm sure you will get numerous different opinions on these forums but I ,personally, have never had a rifle fail in the field in all my many many years of hunting. I had a scope fail once and that is the extent of it in well over 60 years. For some reason unknown to me I seem to be far luckier than anyone on the forum in many respects about firearms.

First let me say I have never hunted elephant and maybe never will, but if it was me I would buy the best solid money can buy. I would also expect the PH to fire a back up shot if the elephant did not drop at the shot. If you can live with that than I think all will be well.

Good luck to you

I often have a 9.3x62 along as backup or for when a scoped rifle is needed.
The 375H&H is ideal.

Peter Flack has a good guideline in that you should never carry anything too small to kill your biggest quarry. Go to his site and he has a very well-reasoned article on the subject.

TBD,

I own and have taken both the H&H and Wby version of the 375 to Africa. I don't think that game knows the difference. I can't say that I could tell that one killed better than the other.

My best load in the 375 H&H with 23" barrel gives a 300 SAF 2540 fps. The 375 WBY with 24" barrel gives 2764 fps with 300 NF. If you think a couple hundred fps and a litte flatter trajectory is worth it go for the WBY otherwise there just are no flies on the old H&H.

I also think the 375 of some kind is a fine back up to yout big bore. It will brain your ele and be ideal for any PG your after.

Mark

quote:

They speak with forked tongue and perhaps may not be able to handle anything greater than a .416 Taylor for their DG hunting.

Some are so dense that even a 375 H&H solid would not penetrate.

Lighten up dude. I was just kidding. If I was serious no one would have any doubt.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
If I was serious no one would have any doubt.

I am going to have to remember that one!

quote:

Send a personal post to people like Harry Selby, Karl Stumpfe, Karl Rabe, Ganyana, Ray Atkinson, Saeed or any other hunter/professional hunter with years of experience

JFM,

Not sure that Ganyana would appreciate being lumped in with the likes of Ray.

Take a look,

http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/4401087961/p/2

Sure, for Elephant and Buffalo a .375H&H is adequate. ADEQUATE! Not good nor very good and certainly not best, so if adequate is enough for you then so be it. Personally I don't hunt anything, especially DG, with anything merely adequate. I learned that with my first Ele which was taken with a .375H&H. When I returned home I immediately began looking for a .416Rem and the .375 has never gone back to africa. All my Buff have since been killed with the .416 and Ele with the .458.

It's quite simple really. A .416 will do anything a .375 will do, but will do it better every time. Anyone who can shoot a .375 can shoot a .416 without adverse effect.

I never hunted anywhere but Zimbabwe but no where I hunted were there NOT elephants. If the rule is to never carry anything smaller than something able to take the largest game encountered you would never ever have a reason to carry ANYTHING under at the least a 375H&H. I don't proscribe to that concept myself. I aasume you have to hunt with a PH and that is HIS responsibility.

quote:

I aasume you have to hunt with a PH and that is HIS responsibility.

There's a saying that go's "Assumption is the mother of all F&%$ ups" that might just apply here.

quote:

I aasume you have to hunt with a PH and that is HIS responsibility.

Assuming or counting on a PH to always be able to dig you out of trouble is akin to assuming that you are safe from harm as long as you are able to dial 911.

Do what you like of course. I am of the mind set that I will take care of my own troubles if needed, and in at least one occasion it has saved my bacon.

BTW,

My DG rifles are a .470 and a .375H&H. However I have since I did my last DG hunt in 2008 I have purchased a .404 Jeffery. when hunting the valley in the future my rifles will be my .470 and my .404. I load my .404 to .416 Rigby levels and have it scoped. I like at least one scoped along for sundry "other" stuff on the list.

I like Lionhunter's and BaxterB's advice.

If you have a choice, go over 40. It doesn't sound like you need to save money on the rifle, so a Ruger 416 Ruger may not be too interesting, though it is a tremendous amount of firepower to put in anyone's hands. However, if you are used to a double, the short-ish 416Ruger Alaskan may feel the closest to your double among bolt actions.

You may have heard me extol the benefits of handloaded 416Rigby's, too. A finer all-around African rifle couldn't be imagined. When my 500 AccR is finished, licensed, and in place, then the 416Rigby will become my official light rifle. (Ps: I'm a simple hunter and don't do elephant, just buffalo and antelope, but it doesn't hurt to hammer the buffalo as hard as you can. 6000+ ftlbs and more diameter is better than 4300-5000 ftlbs and less diameter. The 416Rigby and even the 416Ruger are great antelope guns that will do it all and are better if you have to walk into thick stuff. Besides, "Murphy" is out there and I can't plan to leave things up to backup supporters. What if the PH trips on a root, slips on a mini-depression/hole cavein?)

I really would like to understand. What is being said is you MUST be prepared to take care of any encounter your self. Therefore you should carry at the least a .40 calibre or above while in any Elephant country no matter what you are hunting. You should also never place your confidence in your PH's ability to protect you because in the final analysis it is your own responsibility. It really simplifies your choice of rifles for Africa. Of course I can only speak of Zimbabwe since that's the only place I've ever hunted.

Off to Zimbabwe this fall for Buff and Tuskless and went through the same thought process you are going through. I am bringing my 450NE and and struggled about a back up rifle. I felt for me that my 375H&H was just not enough for Tuskless if my 450NE came up lame (a cow calf herd can turn into a real train wreck). I settled on re-barreling a 375H&H to 400H&H which is essentially a 416 class rifle pushing a 400grn Bullet at 2400fps. with a scope it's an honest 250yrd rifle. Good luck with your decision big trips are always a good excuse to think about a new rifle

I do not know much about hunting in Africa and really know much what I learn from you. If I ever go to the big elephant my choice would be to take as the main weapon the 458 Lott, and as back up the 375 H & H Magnum, but I think this last round referenced is not the right to hunt the elephants and I'd bring at least a 404 Jeffery for with modern loads of gunpowder the old cartridge gives very good performance surpassing the 375 H & H, which reserved for very large antelopes. It is my humble opinion based on reading many post on this forum, that I think are very accurate.

Oscar.

In my dreams, I have killed over 1,000 elephants. I always had a double 470 NE in my hands and it worked perfectly

My recommendation is the .375 H&H with 2 scopes one a low power 1.5-5 with an illuminated recital for use in close and in low light conditions. The second scope would be a 4-12 for longer shots. I don’t think you have to worry about penetration with the .375 H&H any time you have to worry what is behind your buff because of over penetration and if you put a hole in it it’s yours. I also think the .375 H&H is going to be easier to shoot from any position.
You have the .470 for big nasty stuff.
Bill

On the few elephant hunts I made the heavy rifle always went with when we left the vehicle even if we were going for plains game. I carried either a 470 or 375 and a tracker would carry the rifle I did not carry.

The chances of your Heym not working is slim. The only worry is you left the truck with the light rifle (375) and your Heym is not with you.

Once the ele and buff are taken you can leave the double behind if you wish, although I always took mine with me.

BigB

Most African professional hunters recommend a .375 for clients in pursuit of ALL African hunting. They must thank God every day that American hunters come over with their stopping rifles to save their sorry asses. What a bunch of misguided fools. Perhaps we should start charging them for guiding/protection fees. I have a new .470 NE Krieghoff that I don't shoot real well yet. I think I'll become a PH!

jfm,
Not sure about you but I very much enjoy hunting with large calibre rifles and heck I'm not even an American.

Oz, I'm for the most part kidding. I love hunting with/shooting the big bores as well. I don't believe I can think of anything better than going after DG with my .470 double. It's just that I am amazed that many on this forum truly believe that a .375 H&H or similar would be incapable of taking DG when they've performed that role thousands of times in the past and present. It's like stating the bloodhound is no longer capable of tracking or that beautiful women are no longer capable of attracting heterosexual men. I don't know what people are afraid of. Just makes me wonder when so many professionals suggest a 9.3 x 62 or .375 and many here think it so ridiculous a suggestion. Are professional hunters so ignorant as to make suggestions to clients that will put all involved in danger?

Thanks,

jfm

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
I often have a 9.3x62 along as backup or for when a scoped rifle is needed.
The 375H&H is ideal.

+1