I've been used to shooting a .416 Ruger and have just bought a CZ Safari Mag 458 Lott to use here in Australia in the N.T. on Buffalo. I want to learn to shoot the Lott the right way. How to stand, how to hold etc to "manage" this rifle properly. Thanks, Bob

Same way you handle your .416 should work, without modification.

I find a straight stance with feet closer together help roll your body thus minimising felt recoil.
You don't need to be big and strong (big guys seem to absorb the recoil), better to go with the flow but a grip more snug than lighter recoiling rifles is a must.
Oh, and make sure you get a Gunsmith to properly Bed and Pin the rifle. Even with this you have no guarantee the stock wont split. A good mate had his CZ LOTT stock split even after bedding.

Weight,gun fit and stock shape have more to do with it than any thing else. Being fit and having good muscle tone/mass helps. A strong grip and not letting the rifle get a running start is the key.

JD

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
Same way you handle your .416 should work, without modification.

That is right , in all expected hunting position and sometimes in bench rest position for testing the accuracy . The last one is a good training for recoil control . I do that with a 460WM and a 500 Jeffery both with scope . Imho with a 458 Lott there are no problems !

Thanks Guy's for your input, I,ve also found some really good stuff further on in this forum Thanks again

I was going to suggest that you do a search on this forum, but it seems as though you already have! Good stuff here.

Shooting big bores I guess is like a boxing fighting match-at least for me.The more I shoot it,the more difficult it is to stay the course of the fight.It is easy in the beginning but it gets harder the more you shoot.Your whole body takes a beating from this thing and you never fully recover.But if you never shoot with one you won`t know why you miss the target when you do.That takes alot of experience to know.You then set about with that in mind even though your tolerance to recoil diminishes.

In round figures, by way of comparison --

30-06 Spfd generates about 20 ft. lbs. recoil.

45-70 Govt. runs about 45 ft. lbs.

.458 Win. Mag. (500 gr. bullet) puts out about 96 ft. lbs. recoil.

And so the .458 Lott w/ a standard 500 gr. "elephant gun" load should run a bit over 100 ft. lbs.

Good fit and an ample recoil pad (I have a Ruger No. 1 Tropical in .458 WM.) makes for a not altogether unsettling felt recoil. Ensure that you're all "tucked in," have a firm grip, and keep your eye relief on any scope sufficient that it doesn't smack you in the face. (Yeah, it takes ONE TIME to learn that precaution.)

I've bench fired this gun quite a bit, more than 20 rds in a session. I don't find that it "beats me up." Just be certain you have a grip on the gun, good form, and that the gun fits.

file:///C:/Users/carol/Documents/Recoil%20charts%20for%20popular%20hunting%20rounds%20-%20Georgia%20Outdoor%20News%20Forum.htm

Here is a chart.
Frank

There's more to it than that. I find recoil velocity to be more meaningful than just recoil energy comparisons. I'd rather shoot my 600 OK offhand than my 340 Wby, from a perceived recoil sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
There's more to it than that. I find recoil velocity to be more meaningful than just recoil energy comparisons. I'd rather shoot my 600 OK offhand than my 340 Wby, from a perceived recoil sense.

Ditto's Jon, that is why myself and most other folk I've talked to handle 375 H&H recoil better than 338 win mag recoil because of the recoil velocity factor not recoil energy.

Best investment you'll ever make is to find someone who really knows how to shot a big bore. Not some pretender! Take shooting lessons! 1hr of the proper instruction will save you years of pain and disappointment. -Rob

Mack, don't know what State you live in but if it's down Sth there's the Big Bore Rifle Club that shoot down at the Little River range.

Joining would be well worth while for at the very least plenty of practice.

There's lots of big bore shooters in this club and some of them even know how to shoot !

Best of luck.

Paul.

458 Lott is nothing to worry about. It doesn't take any special attention.

Here even 14 years old kids have no problem to shoot it.

Pyzda

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:
458 Lott is nothing to worry about. It doesn't take any special attention.

Here even 14 years old kids have no problem to shoot it.

Pyzda

I think that's pretty broad and dicey advice. One laxed shot from a full house 458 can land the shooter in quite a bit of trouble. Improper technique in many rifle calibers could do likewise.

The Lott will take anyone down big or small,I guarantee it. It`s only a matter of time until it puts you out of the game.No technique is going to stop your body and brain from absorbing the recoil energy-keep on dreaming.If it hasn`t screwed you up you have not shot it enough.

I shoot them all the same..I guess the main thing is to pull the gun into your shoulder with the left hand and grip the grip "snug". a regular stance at a bit of an angle..As you practice you can play with what works and what doesn't...

I wouldn't make to big a deal out of it, just go shoot it a lot and take care with trigger pull. All my big bores have had hard Silvers pads..I always recall what Jack Belk told me one time..A big ole soft pad give a big bore a running start at your shoulder??? He just might be right, I don't know, but the hard Silvers have worked for me and a million Africans and Englishmen...I had a beautiful 404 with a steel butt and held as described it was fine, but when I held it loosely it did bite me.

I ordered a Silvers pad yesterday for my custom project.I feel the same way about the soft pads.Putting on to many layers of clothes thinking that it will soften the punch is a mistake too-you get beat more than ever.Hard Silvers is the way to go-looks the classiest too.I like the red original.I think it is more conservative.

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:
458 Lott is nothing to worry about. It doesn't take any special attention.

Here even 14 years old kids have no problem to shoot it.

Pyzda

wheres "here"

The one thing I haven't seen talked about in this thread is the technique of push/pull. Some do it differently than others but I pull into the shoulder with the grip hand while pushing out with the fore-end hand, creating an isometric tension. This significantly relieves the amount of actual recoil the body absorbs. No real need to do this up to the 416 or 458 level, but above that, it really begins to help.

I pull in with both hands and press my cheek into the stock as hard as I can so the rifle doesn't get "the free run" on me.

It works, guaranteeed.

Pyzda

I think that proper rifle fit is the very first element; make sure that your scope can't give you a Weatherby eyebrow. It's much easier if you reload, as you can start with moderate loads and work your way up in power as you gain confidence. Take a .22 with you to the range and alternate with the big bore; it will help you detect flinching. Finally, I'd say stop shooting for the day when it begins to hurt, which varies considerably, at least for me.

I'm no expert, but I play one on the Internet.

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:
I pull in with both hands as hard as I can so the rifle doesn't get "the free run" on me.

It works, guaranteeed.

Pyzda

wheres "here"?

Hi,you guys, thanks for the feedback so far.I've been working up some loads with 350gn Speers using Trailboss and then AR2206H which is the same as IMR 4895 , also working towards 500 gn TSX and Hornady DGS to see how they shoot in this rifle. Looking for bullets to use on Buffalo in Arnhem Land in Australias Northern Territory later this year. So now I've been practicing standing the right way, leaning into it, pulling into the shoulder hard while gripping the forearm firmly and pushing the forearm forward at the same time. All this info has helped but for now it's a waiting game waiting for the recent floodwaters that hit the east coast of Australia to subside here in Queensland,cant get out to the farm till it dry's out.Anyway in the meantime I've replaced the trigger with a Timmeny set at 2.5lbs just like my .416, 300 Mag and.223. Also replaced the recoil pad and adjusted the LOP and releived the stock clearance around the tang. The stock already has 2 factory crossbolts fitted.Then I've added a Lupy in 1.5-5x20 VX3. with Warn QD mounts so that brings the weight up to just over 10.lbs. Another thing I've been doing at the farm is beginning a shooting session with a .223,300 Mag,.416 Ruger Alaskan( its a great little gun) then the .458 Lott. All I have to do now is practice after working up loads on the bench. Thanks again, this is a great forum to be involved in.

Hey, mate. Good luck. Do you live in the Territory? I'd be happy to do some shooting practice with you.

EDIT - Sorry, I see you're in Queensland.

I have always wondered why a heavy recoiling rifle like a 458 Lott kicks the snot out of you at the range but you never feel any recoil when you shoot it at an elephant. Why the difference. I don't have the answer as yet but think it may have something to do with how relaxed your muscles are when you shoot at game. What are your ideas on this?

465H&H

You are more pumped up when you are shooting at game.Try shooting at the range at a very cold temp.On a couple of times,a single shot caused me to pack up and leave.You have no strength when you are cold or when the blood is concentrated to the body core.When it is cold outside you don`t have the strength to unscrew the cap off of a gallon of windshield washer fluid.

shooting at game your adrenaline blocks out any pain. you may feel more calm, but that is actually adreniline combined with extreme focus.

My technique is the following:
-have a firm grip on the forarm of the rifle. This makes your arm act like part of the rifle and adds significant mass to the rifle to slow the recoil.
-Don't put the butt into your shoulder pocket. bring it out a bit more onto your peck muscle.
-Keep your grip and arms stiff, but the rest of your body loose.
-roll with the recoil, don't try to fight it because it will fight back equally.
-being more tone helps because your body will move more with the rifle instead of fighting back against the inertia.
-if you shoot up or down hill the recoil will feel slightly more.
-again hold firm, but don't tense, shoot it like a shotgun

The first time that I fired my .500 A2, I held the rifle loosely with my right (trigger) hand and the bolt knob would slam into my hand after each shot; when I was done, my hand was swollen to twice its normal size. Maybe I'm not so bright, but I quickly learned to hold on in the interest of self-preservation. The moral of the story, to my mind, is this: don't be afraid to shoot the rifle. Use it often, if possible, and don't be afraid to make some mistakes. Remember, it's supposed to be fun.

Years ago, I bought a boat. I knew next to nothing about boats, and discovered that learning to drive a boat is like learning to drive a car in the Mercedes dealer's parking lot. Much to my surprise, I later learned that many boat owners were afraid of their boats and never really learned to pilot them; the boats sat at the docks and rotted for years, unused by their owners ...

Do whatever it takes to get over the hump in the learning curve. Others may laugh at your mistakes, but you'll be having so much fun that you won't notice it. Besides, after all that practice, you'll be so good that you'll have the last laugh.