I have had 2 378s, 1 416 and 2 460s

Until the introduction of the CZ 550 in 416 Rigby I always thought the big Weatherbys the easiest and best way to a large cartridge rifle. I like the stock design very much on the Mark V as I have always found recoil to be far less from those stocks as opposed to the stock that have the centre of the butt very high. The in line feeding works like a charm.

The more they shine the more I like 'em

Apart from the forum leader Mitch, is there anyone else out there in forum land who likes the big Weatherbys.

Mike

I would like to have a 378,just to see if the calims about recoil are true! Everyone I have ever talked to says the 378 is the most violent thing they ever shot!! I have some pretty stiff loads for my 375 RUM,just like to campare the two.

I like the Mark V action and never had a problem with it. Several of our clients have used them without a problem on every species imagineable.

Aleko

diesel_dude

If you try a 378 make sure it is the Japanese made on. The USA made ones have the heavier barrel and a muzzle brake...a girl's gun

Mike

Mike375,

I would have to say that the .375Weatherby is one of the best all around calibers out there. If I wanted a Weatherby, it would be their .375.

Joe

Have a Jap made 378,have a German made 378 on the way.Both wear Accubrakes/KDFs.Plan on getting a 416 and 460 one day.

Mike-the later Jap ones have #3 barrels too.They started puting #3 barrels on them in '89 or '90 when they came out with the 416.My Jap one has a #3,the German one coming has the #2.Heck,the #3 is light to start with!

Brian.

The only one I have is a Jap left hand model in 300WBY,it has the 24" bbl and shoots like a house afire with the 200 Noslers.Would love to try one of the 460's but whish they carried more rounds than two

Brian,

I have always reckoned that the contour used on the 416 (all the 378 based calibres except 460) is about perfect for the Mark V action and stock.

It is a pity that they don't make at least the 378 and 416 in the Synthetic for te much lower price. Also, if the Synthetic is the same rubber type material that is in those Rem 700 stocks you would not need any barrel mounted recoil lug.

By the way, Mac37 will probably ask Saeed to delete this thread

Mike

Mike375
In answer to your question, I have owned a 257, 2-300's, a 340, and a 416. I have shot two different 378's and a 460. I have never had a malfunction of any kind with a Weatherby rifle. As far as the "big" Wby's go, I found that the 460 [with the pendleton de-kicker] had the most recoil, followed by the 416 with a KDF [without the KDF the 416 was worse than the 460], followed by the 378 with no brake, then the 378 with Magna-port, followed by the 378 with a KDF. The 378 with the KDF could be shot prone with a Harris bipod like a varmint rifle[with ear protection of course].
If you like the Weatherby action and stock, take a look at the Weatherby Dangerous Game Rifle. I handled one the other day and it looked good.
P.S. the 378 and up Wby's can be reloaded with a live round in the chamber, just turn the rifle upside down, open the floor plate and drop in one or two rounds, close the floor plate, flip her over, and you are ready to go with a topped off rifle.

N E 450 No2

Apart from myself you are other only other bloke I have seen on the forum that mentions the advantage of that inline magazine

However, I guess being a double man you can look at the bolt actions with a non biased point of view

Both of my 460s had the Pendleton. For me the recoil of the light barrled 378s is considerably worse than the 416 with brake on.

Mike

Mike375 The 378 without the brake was "sharper" than the 416 with the KDF, but it did not seem to push me back as far, and the WBY stock handles recoil real well. The 378 With a KDF and ear plugs would make a good long range rifle for BIG big game, but I do not like any type of muzzle break for up close hunting, especially DGR. If I still had my 416 I think I would load 400gr. bullets at @2200fps. Comfortable to shoot and plenty enough for DGR. I would try to find a 300gr. at 2400 to 2600 that hit with the 400gr. loads for the "smaller" big game. I did have to retighten the action screws every 10 to fifteen rounds on my 416 Wby.
The Weatherby Mark V and the Blaser R93 are the only belted magnums that have never given me any feeding or ejecting problems. They always work 100%.

N E 450 No2

If you have to retighten screws then that is a bedding problem and/or stock problem.

I have not done much with the 416. In fact a few months ago neck problems were looking like I would be changing my handle to Mike13. However I have some good progress with my neck and we are heading to the range the weekend after next.

The 416 will be much easier with mid range loads than either the 378 or 460. The reason for this is that both the 378 and 460 have huge freebore whereas the 416 does not. Big cases and huge freebore is a recipe for hangfires, especially with light for calibre bullets.

With the 416 I am expecting to get top accuracy with powders like Australian AR 2208 (Varget) and AR 2206 (like 3031 but Hodgdon don't sell it) with 350 Speer and loads around the 80 to 85 grains for between 2200 and 2400.

Mike

Mike,
Amen on a "reasonably priced" 378 or 416.Heck,the cheapest one you can get is the Mark V Deluxe,and current retail on those in the states is just over $2,000!!

Yeah,Mac is going to have a kinipshin-fit when he sees this thread.

NE 450 No2,
My Jap 378 has an Accubrake (KDF rip off),and I'm having a KDF put on my German one.

Haven't fired either yet,but will so soon.I apprechiate your posts relating the recoil of the braked 378's recoil.I think the 378 is at it's best when used for a long range big game round (with 270 grain spire points or 300 grain BTSPs loaded hot,it shoots as flat as a 300 Weatherby with 165s!).You have now reconfirmed my thoughts that the braked 378 will be comfortable enough to shoot for prescision at long range from improvised field positions.

I think the bias against the big Weatherbys are from A)Folks who can't handle them or B)Folks who have never handled them.

The last few pages of PHC's "A Man Called Lion" is devoted to bashing the 460.It's so much hooey it's funny.I think the main problem was using the combonation of soft Hornady 500 grain RNSP and folks who were scared sh!tless of their rifles.

Brian.

Brian,

As I said I have two 460s. I think I explained to you previously that both were purhcased in the early 1970s, one by me and one by a mate who kept his and never fired it. About 1990 I bought it from him and the used it for a couple of years. Then one of our gun writers bought it from me.

The point of the above being that I have seen the 460 velocities across a large spread of years.

Now what beats me is that 460 is supposed to be way to fast yet the 375 with 300 grainers is spot on.

Factory ammo I chonographed from the 460 in the 70s (with Oehler 10 and paper screens) was at just over 2500 and ammo I chronographed in the 90s with Oehler 35 was in the high 2500s. That is about 50 f/s more that most 375 factory ammo with 300 grains.

Reloads are much the same with single base poweders. A 460 is at the end with 2550 and IMR 4350 and 500 grainers. You have slight ejector marks at about 2600.

Soooooo if the 300 375 is the bees knees what is wrong with the 460 with a 500 grainer going 50 f/s faster.

Mike

Mike,
I have often thought the same thing.

I think the main problem is that Hornadys are made with the 458 Winny,2000 FPS range in mind.They just don't work well at 2500 or even 2400 out of a Lott I bet you (though I don't know).

Stuff a 460 with a 350-500 grain Barnes X,and it's probably the bees knees.

Heck,Kyler Hamian (sp?)who posts here,packed a Lazermark 460 to Africa last summer,stuffed with some sort of premium 450 grain bullet.He said the buffs never knew what hit them!!

Hey,if a 300 grain bullet at 2500 is good,shouldn't a 500 at the same speed be even better?How about a Barnes X 350 grainer at 2900?Or a 450 at 2700??

Weatherbys get a lot of unfair critizm by folks who have never used them,most because rich folk back in the day liked to use them.If they had used Model 70s,everyone would hate Winchesters.

Note that most folks who give them a bad wrap,have never shot a Weatherby,let alone owned one.

Brian.

Brian,

If you have seen many of N E 450 No2's postings you will know that he regards anything with one barrel as suspect and this of course allows him to have no axe to grind with bolt actions.

The Weatherby rifle and cartridges are successful for the same reason that their counterpart in cars are successful.

I assume that in America you have hot versions of the General Motors and Ford products. These sort of cars upset the Porsche and Mercedes owners and into the bargain you can take them to the local dealer.

Weatherby is the same. For example if you buy a 416 Wby then your scope mounts are whatever fits Rem 700 30/06.

Enough people buy Weatherbys so that they are distributed across the world and have Norma make brass and ammo. You could go to any gun shop in Australia and order Wby ammo and they already deal with the import agent because the agent brings in Nosler, Leupold etc.

If you asked for Lazzeroni ammo they would say...that must be some wog turnout If you asked for Dakota they would tell you that they are not a travel agent

Weatherby is very Chev Corvette but it was unfortunate that for many years the "Corvette" had "Made in Japan" on the side.

Mike

Mike,
Yes,the Mercedes,Porche,and Jaguar folks,at least here in Kalifornia,really despise stuff like the Corvette and the Viper.

Of course,then there's folks who own Porches AND Vettes.

I think Lazzoroni's get a lot of the up-turned noses too,for the same reasons Weatherbys do.Of course,the Lazzoroni's don't do anything their Weatherby counterparts don't do already,plus the Lazzoroni is butt ugly and extremely expensive.The brass even makes Weatherby brass look cheap!

I don't get what all this bitching is about the Jap made Weatherbys.I have a bunch of both German and Jap made Weatherbys.Take the place of manufacter off the gun,and I can't tell the difference.It really makes no difference to me.I do though prefer the German made 378 as it comes with the #2 barrel,which will be much nicer to pack on my wilderness bear hunts.

I've had one USA Weatherby.It was such a peice of junk that I never fired it.It was sent back to Weatherby three times before they finaly gave me a new rifle.I was so disenchanted by that time that I traded it for a Belgium made Browning Safari Grade 458 Magnum,which is much nicer.

Brian.

Brian

Lazzeroni brass seems to be under question all of the time. Do MAST make the brass.

As to Jap Weatherbys, well that is just how I am. The fact that I have owned a lot of them is probably a good argument in favour of the Weatherby package. The 416 I have is a Jap rifle.

In Australia Japanese made is not something that goes across well for an important product. Fine for radios, computers and hatchback cars.

Weatherby rifles look American.

The best selling rifle in Australia is the Ruger. The price of the Ruger in 308, Howa in 308 and CZ in 308 is very close and much less than M70 or Rem 700. The Ruger has Made in USA.

Mike

Weatherbys!! My favorite subject.
I've got the 416,460, and a 300. The 460 is more noticeable than the 416. I love the shine too.
Polish em'up. I can't afford to shot them all the time, but they're so damn accurate when I do shoot them. And they're all Jap made. What could be better?
Trigger

I like the thought of the big Weatherbys but they are too much of a good thing for me with factory ammo. I have shot the 378 and 460. I found myself constantly being concerned about the scope hitting me using full power ammo. I saw a rifleman hit in the face with the scope on a 378. Very serious injury. The felt recoil of the 378 with factory ammo from the factory MK V Deluxe non-braked was vicious.

I have a highly prized Mark V Deluxe chambered in 257 Wby Mag. This rifle has never failed to feed, fire, and eject. It shoots .5 inch and better 100 yd 3 shot groups.

Ditto that guy OVIS!

As a current owner of a few Weatherby's and having owned about 7 in the past I have the following observations to share.
1. If they shoot well and don't jam they are a keeper. I have a 257 and 460 that both qualify.
I've had a 340 and a 30-378 that had tears in the barrel rifling, a bad factory crown and
lousy bedding. I sold them as neither I nor the factory could make them shoot. This is a very nasty story involving Weatherby's inability to fix the 30-378 that would shoot at best 6 inch groups at 50 Yrds.
2. If Weatherby actually currently employs gunsmiths, they are not very competent based on a few conversations I've had with them concerning the rifles problems as described above. I might as well have been talking to my cat as to those guys level of understanding.
3. The nine locking lugs on their actions are simply a sales gimmic and represent pretty crappy design as I've never gotten more than about 4 of them to actually demonstrate proper engagement. If any of you don't believe me, get some dye-chem, put it on your weatherby bolt and see how much engagement you actually get. Pretty scary! By the way how many Weatherby actions do you see on competition rifles at contests? Not many huh! Wonder why?
4. The 460 Weatherby only holds 2 down and uses Mickey Mouse feed lips to control the cartridges. I've had more than a few overrides and spend days ajusting the lips properly.
5. Take a real good look at their factory stock bedding. Then get out your dremmel tool and acraglass. In a rifle costing $1200 or more, I expect minimally competent bedding.
6. I actually like nearly all of the Weatherby cartridges except the 460 which IMHO only is a good basis for a 500 A2. A good 460 WBY load is the exact equivqlent to a 450 Ackley. By the way just try and show up in Africa with a 460 WBY. Most PH's don't exactly rate it high up on their list of great stoppers( Pano Calavrias is the only exception and he's been chewed by Lions twice). The embarassement factor is also very high as I've been told.
Basically for $1200 I can build a heck of a better rifle in any caliber( including the entire Weatherby line) with better accuracy, more cartridge capacity and reliability on a CZ550 action and have money left over for a decent scope. In the future I would only buy a Weatherby if I had the opportunity to shoot it extensively first.
These are just my personal opinions and I'm not flaming anyone who owns a Weatherby and likes them. To each his own! I just don't worship at the Weatherby alter.-Rob

[ 03-20-2003, 23:12: Message edited by: Robgunbuilder ]

I warship at the weatherby alter.
I've been through 2 257's, one 270, one 7mm,one 300, 1 416, and 1 460. Thats 7, all flawless.
Also a 25-06,and 2 243's, in their vanguard series. Again, flawless.
On the other hand, i've never had a model 70, or 700 that shot as well as them.
Savage has always been best. I'll always have a 110 in the rack for those rainy days when I don't want to get that pretty, shiny, fully functioning weatherby wet.
Trigger

I like the 460 and 300 Wby calibers, but I abhor the stock design as to looks and they don't work for me as well as the english design...

Wow!You really never had a Rem 700 that shot as well as a Weatherby?Maybe a Remington 1856 but a M700? Damn- I'm gonna junk all my Rem 700 Benchguns, trash my M700 benchrest awards and invest in Weatherby's. To think I've been this wrong all these years! -Rob

Got ten Weatherby Mark V Deluxe's at the moment. 2 .224's, 1 .240, 1 .257, 1 .270, 1 .7mm, 2 .300's, 1 .340 and my newest a .375 Weatherby Magnum(most likely the most versatile cartridge going today). All live up to the Weatherby guarantee of accuracy and reliability. Their stock design fits me and I love the way they look and feel. As soon as I find a .378, .416 and a .460 WITHOUT a brake then I'll add them to my collection. Lawdog

Mike
My mate uses 2209 in his 416

He loads very hot and has broken about 4 extractors in his 416 and 378.
His 30-378 shoots 1 hole groups at 100yds and is on it's second barrel, it took him big tin(5kg?) of 2218 to burn it out.

Rob LMAO

Rob,
Out of around 15 Weatherbys I've either owned or had direct contact with,only one wouldn't consistently put three well under an inch at 100 yards with good handloads.That was a Euromark 300 that had a f'ed up fore-end tip.

Note that none of these have been monkied with-all out of the box short of some trigger adjustment of course.Heck,my old man's 257,which has been crashed on by a motorcycle,had it's barrel shoved into mud (while holding up a 200 pound Honda Trials bike),was beat against a tree by someone who stole it,has been through three stocks (started off in a Euromark stock,then a Mark V stock,now a $100 B&C tubba-ware),and STILL will put three under 0.5 inch at 100 yards,consistently.Heck,he shot a 3 shot,3/8 inch group at 300 yards with it not too long ago.That was a fluke though as it normaly only does an inch at that range.

Yep,them Weatherbys won't take any abuse,don't shoot well,won't feed,won't do nothin.I guess that's why they're one of the most popular rifles in the world.

Oh yeah-and if my PH didn't like whatever rifle I brought on safari,that'd just be too bad.Unlike a lot of folks,I could care less what other folks think of what I hunt with.I hunt,shoot and collect guns for my own enjoyment,not to impress someone else,which I think is the main problem with a whole lot of folks on this board.

Brian.

1. If they shoot well and don't jam they are a keeper. I have a 257 and 460 that both qualify.
I've had a 340 and a 30-378 that had tears in the barrel rifling, a bad factory crown and
lousy bedding. I sold them as neither I nor the factory could make them shoot. This is a very nasty story involving Weatherby's inability to fix the 30-378 that would shoot at best 6 inch groups at 50 Yrds.

I have seen quite Weatherbys with shit barrels. Their bedding for me is no different to any other rilfe because I will bed and float anyway. But Weatherbyes are generally well made and with the barrel pointing in the same direction as the receiver. Winchestr and Remington will soon have the barrel and receiver looking like a T piece

2. If Weatherby actually currently employs gunsmiths, they are not very competent based on a few conversations I've had with them concerning the rifles problems as described above. I might as well have been talking to my cat as to those guys level of understanding.

They recruit from Wicnhester and Remington

3. The nine locking lugs on their actions are simply a sales gimmic and represent pretty crappy design as I've never gotten more than about 4 of them to actually demonstrate proper engagement. If any of you don't believe me, get some dye-chem, put it on your weatherby bolt and see how much engagement you actually get. Pretty scary! By the way how many Weatherby actions do you see on competition rifles at contests? Not many huh! Wonder why?

The difficulty I always have this idea of 4 little lugs being the only ones to bear is that we continually here about the potential of action set back with big cases in 2 lug actions. But if all the Weatherbys in 378 etc are running around the place with only 4 lugs bearing then to me something is not adding up.

4. The 460 Weatherby only holds 2 down and uses Mickey Mouse feed lips to control the cartridges. I've had more than a few overrides and spend days ajusting the lips properly.

You can get overrides if you pull the bolt back very slowly. The problem is not enough rear tension on the magazine spring and the fact that the Mark V turns every case into a rebated rim. This occurse because the when the bolt is in the open position a row of lugs is right on the bottom and this forces the case down below the bolt nose. If you have very fast hands you can get an override as well but you need to be quick. It is more of a problem with the 378 case sicne it is already slightly rebated.

But having said that in my experience the in line feed for the 378 cases is more reliable that "out of the box" staggered feeds. The inline feed is also mucg more reliable with very blunt bullets in calibres like the 416 and 460 where the bullet diameter is not so small compared to the chamber diameter.

5. Take a real good look at their factory stock bedding. Then get out your dremmel tool and acraglass. In a rifle costing $1200 or more, I expect minimally competent bedding.

I don't freagrd a Weatherby as being bedded. The glass under the receiver only really covers a cross bolt.

6. I actually like nearly all of the Weatherby cartridges except the 460 which IMHO only is a good basis for a 500 A2. A good 460 WBY load is the exact equivqlent to a 450 Ackley. By the way just try and show up in Africa with a 460 WBY.

I don't like the freebore as idf the freebore diameter is too large they will be a non shooter. The 416 Wby does not have the long freebore.

Basically for $1200 I can build a heck of a better rifle in any caliber( including the entire Weatherby line) with better accuracy, more cartridge capacity and reliability on a CZ550 action and have money left over for a decent scope.

I agree with that and especially since the CZ has been available in 416 Rigby. However, if you like the Weatherby style which is very a much a product of the action then the CZ is no good. Once the trigger return spring is replaced in the Mark V most of then will adjust from a reliable 1 pound and up and all without taking the rifle apart which gives some added flexibility. Another aspect of the Mark V as compared to the CZ is that the Mark V takes and scope mount that fits a Rem 700. The very large and clean tang area of the Mark V also makes for a bedding configuration.

Provided you like the style, The Mark V Deluxe gives a great looking gun straight out of the box. In a similar price range and to obtain a "classic look" I guess the Ruger in 375, 4126 and 458 Lott is the counterpart of the Weatherby.

As to the nine lugs and 54 degree bolt lift I think that makes for the fastest action but only if they are the only actions you use. Weatherbys can be awkward to use quickly if you are use to using and handling a two lug action all of the time. The same thing applies for someone using the Mark V and handling them a lot and only Mark Vs when they start to use and handle a 2 lug action.

Mike