What do you guys think is this an adequate elephant bullet? Or should we still be thinking pure solid?

For elephants, PURE SOLID ONLY. The NF cup point is a fabulous bullet. It was designed to expand a bit, retain all of its weight, and drive deep, but with the larger wound channel characteristic of an expanding bullet.

On elephant, it's necessary to be prepared for the worst shot angle. That is with an ele standing above you at close range with his head raised. So you may have to shoot through 5 feet of trunk and 18" of honeycomb skull before the bullet reaches the brain. Or you may need to shoot through the base of a tusk with an elaphant's head quartering toward you. If the bullet expands, that only decreases the chance that it will reach all the way to the brain.

Another bad shot would be quartering away where you try to hit and break the offside shoulder. Most guys would just go for the heart, but if you wanted to go through the lungs and break the shoulder blade, then max penetration would be desirable because you would be breaking a very heavy bone at the very end of the bullet's penetration depth.

Once again, this is not a campaign against NF cup points, because I think they are fabulous bullets. Here is what I put in another thread here on AR:


From left to right:

1. North Fork 500 grain Cup Nosed Solid .474" - new

2. same, fired into buffalo - 56" penetration

3. same, fired into giraffe - 55" penetration

4. same, fired into giraffe (100 yards f/u shot) - 58" (penetration increased when expansion was less due to reduced velocity at range?)

velocity - 2300 fps



Edited to add:

North Fork bullets website: http://www.northforkbullets.com

500grs.

Yes I agree. I've just heard so much about this being "the only bullet" you need that I thought I'd get some other opinons.

I do think however it may be a fine choice as a sole buffalo bullet.

I am still trying to buy some of these North Fork doesn't have any in .475..

That makes them a lot less desirable. I hate getting something that shoots well and works great and then not be able to count on finding them when you need more.

I have not heard anyone say that the Cup Point is "the only bullet", and I suspect that you are mis quoting me...

what I said or intended to say, is that it could be the only bullet for Buffalo, Lion, plainsgame where I'm concerned..

Elephant is always in a different catagory from other game and I assumed most on AR would understand that without explanation, sorry if I mislead anyone...

No, I wouldn't use a cup point or any soft on elephant, only solids, and preferably flat nose solids from GS Customs...

I think the Northfork solids would be their full equal, but until I have tried them on elephant, I will reserve my opinnion on that. that said I am one of Northforks greatest fans, I don't know of a better bullet...

Surestrike,

I think the NF cup point can be suitable for a "one bullet safari" if hunting everything except elephant and rhino.

As for bullet availability, the companies making these ultra-specialized high quality bullets are small, cannot afford to carry a lot of inventory, and sell out from time to time because their products are highly sought after. This applies to North Fork, GS Custom and Bridger. Perhaps it applies to other companies as well.

My solution is to order a lifetime supply of whatever I order. That means a minimum of 250 pieces of any bullet that I plan to use in the future, and preferably 500 pieces. In the case of readily available bullets, I do not apply this rule. But for other brands, I do.

So I would call NF and place an order for 500 pieces of the cup nose that you want. He might not have them in stock, but if someone is willing to place a significant order, that could accelerate the date on which he makes his next run of that caliber. This is only a suggestion.

I would agree 100% with all that is said by 500grains and Ray, as applies to this thread only!

My previous pot stirring about North Fork CPU's or "CUP's" for elephant brain shooting was just that: pot stirring, in an attempt to get some interest up in the .505 and .510 caliber.

For that I apologize and will get down and do 100 pushups in sets of 50.

I am now thinking the "Bridger Flat Nosed Brass" solid bullet would be the ideal bullet for the .505 and .510 rifles.

It will do the job on elephant brains and body shots, and it will drill a big hole through any smaller game, so a soft point is not needed in a .505 or .510 sporting rifle.

Something like 525 to 550 grain weights in the .505 and .510 Bridger Brass Flat Nosed solids would be great, IMHO.

I have bought North Fork bullets in quantities of 250 and 500 each, as 500 grains recommends.
That was the only way to get the .423/340gr "African Sheep Bullet" into existence in conjunction with another buyer, or few.

It's a good way to go. I am still collecting North Fork bullets. They are definitely the greatest soft point, the Flat Point is as good as any solid I guess, and the "CUP Point Universal" is in a unique class as the ultimate buffalo bullet.

500..

Good advice.. I'll do that and am doing so based entirely on the performance reports from you and Ray and others. I usually am a hands on guy need to try it out first kind of guy.

But I just think I'll have to trust you guys this time.. It does look like a fabulous bullet.

I'll probably buy some solids as well. I'm not booked in this year or next but will probably be looking at 07 or 08.

surestrike,

If for some reason you are not satisfied with how the NF cup point work on game, then I will buy your leftover bullets after you get back from safari (unless RIP beats me to it).

____________

RIP,

Regarding your Bridger comment, I have quoted here something that I posted on http://www.nitroexpress.com:

quote:

The pic below shows Bridger flat nose brass bullets recovered from game. From left (all Bridger solids):

(1) unfired 550 grain 500 Nitro Express bullet,
(2) 550 grain 500 NE bullet fired into cape buffalo (body shot) - 60 inches of penetration
(3) 550 grain 500 NE bullet fired into elephant (body shot) - 52 inches of penetration
(4) unfired 500 grain .470 Capstick bullet
(5) 500 grain 470 Capstick bullet fired into elephant (frontal chest) - 72 inches of penetration
(5) 500 grain bullet fired into elephant (frontal brain) - 39 inches of penetration, stuck in neck vertebrae
(6) unfired 300 grain .375 bullet
(7) 300 grain .375 H&H fired into cape buffalo (frontal chest) - 48 inches of penetration, stopped in guts
(8) 300 grain .375 bullet fired into cape buffalo (frontal chest) - 46 inches of penetration, stopped in guts

_______

Edited to add:

In the near future Bridger bullets will be available from this website:

http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/

500grains,
Great info.

I am collecting Bridger Brass Solids too.

If a rifle won't feed those bullets, then the rifle has a deficiency that must be remedied!

Of course that is never a problem with a double rifle.

Thanks again to 500grains for sharing his results on safari with North Fork and Bridger Bullets.

So far I have fired only one North Fork bullet at game. It was a 3 y.o. bison bull at Comstock Lodge. The bullet was a .423/380gr SP at 2500 fps. The bison died promptly with its offside shoulder broken.

Now I want more cape buffalo with Cups/CPU's and elephant with Bridgers.

Guys, As for the availability of the bridger bullet solid you should be seeing a great improvement. RNS will be a stocking distributor and I plan on making sure he has at least 1000 bullets of each sise on hand.

Give one a try on a softer skinned animal like warthog. YOu will be surprised at teh internal damage.

Also have a pointed spire point bullet in the works as well as a FN soft.

John

fritz454,

Thank you for the update and the good news!

Can you share pics of the FN soft and the pointed bullets you plan to make?

I am with 500gr on the CPS from Northfork. When I see what I like and try it out then I buy a lifetime supply of the damn things. When Mike makes a run of bullets for my 500 Jeffery and the 505 Gibbs I will buy about 10 boxes each caliber and hope it is a lifetime supply. I don't want to be short changed or short sighted. I recently palaced an order for 6 more boxes of CPS for my 404 Jeffery. I now have 350 bullets to shoot out of 2 404 Jeffery rifles and one 10.75x68 I recently bought from Atkinson. I would like to buy 150 rounds of the Bridger FPS in sevral calibers to compliment the CPS. I am sure that the less exotic calibers will be around a while so no rush to stock up but if Mike even hints on closing shop, I'll buy all I can afford.

I prefer GS custom FN solids aka "South Forks". These are 'creme de la creme'.
Where less penetration and more hydrostatic shock is needed I would prefer Carouche SOLOGNE Balle G.P.A. aka "The French Wine Goblet". That's Haute Balistique!!!

450 No2 Nitro , and I talked to the owner of North Fork at the Dallas show, about his design, and matreial. He said he didn't think either of his solids was up to shooting Elephant! I disagree, I say the flat point solid from NF is more than OK for ele, at any angel one would shoot an Ele with any bullet. Of course that is a guess, since I haven't shot an Ele with one!
The CPS, however, is tops for Buffalo, and smaller things, and as long as ele isn't on the menu, it is, IMO, a one bullet choice for Africa! Also, IMO, the Bridger flat point brass solid, and the NF flat point solid, are the only mono-metel bullets that are safe to shoot in any double rifle, and for ELE, I'd rather have the Bridger, but I'd use the NF flat point without fear of being under equipt.

NF told us, they would make a special run of any bullet with an order of 500 or more! The only draw back is, if the order was for something that is not in his regular line, then they are your's if they don't work, but if they are regular stock pattern, his warrenty applies!

I need some for my 470NE in the near future, so I may make a 500 order of CPS. I don't plan on shooting any elephant in the near future.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Also, IMO, the Bridger flat point brass solid, and the NF flat point solid, are the only mono-metel bullets that are safe to shoot in any double rifle,

The GS Custom flat nose solids are also perfectly safe for doubles. http://www.gscustom.co.za

GS Custom flat nose copper bullets.
From left (all GS Custom):

(1) unfired 570 grain 500 Nitro Express bullet
(2) 570 grain 500 NE bullet fired into elephant (frontal brain) - penetrated 74 inches, but missed neck vertebrae
(3) 570 grain 500 NE bullet fired into elephant (frontal brain) - penetrated 31 inches and stuck in neck vertebrae
(4) 570 grain bullet fired into buffalo (body shot) - penetrated 60 inches
(5) unfired 500 grain .470 Capstick bullet
(6) 500 grain .474" bullet fired into buffalo (body shot) - penetrated 56"
(7) 500 grain .474" bullet fired into giraffe (body shot) - penetrated 40"