Gentlemen

This is what happens to a body armout plate when a 535 grn Woodleigh soft nose hits.
I wantd to show my friend the power of this safari classic.

Cheers,

André

My, my. I remember reading at some time in my mispent youth a comic book called "Sarge Rock and his Howling Commandos". Sarge Rock gets shot in the back with a 9mm Nambu, rubs his back and says, "That'll hurt for a at least a week."

Jeffrey, what class of armor plate was this? I'm sure you know there are lots of different levels, from that meant to stop handgun bullets through the heavy plates intended to stop light AP and FMJ military rounds...

I'm curious where the pictured panel falls in the spectrum.

quote:

Originally posted by CDH:
Jeffrey, what class of armor plate was this?

André,

That was the first thing I wondered about too.

But regardless, I would guess it is Threat
Classification III or lower, as the body armor I used to be familar with was level IV with ceramic plates or steel plates.
And as this was supposed to stop 7.62mm Steel & Tungsten cored AP rounds, I doubt the 500 Jeffery would actually go thru. The ceramic plates that is. You're plate appears to be some kind of fabic panel, which naturally can't take as much as a ceramic or steel plate.

Cool picture by the way!

/

These plates are from the British body armour system, used currently in Iraq and Afghanistan.
They also have ceramic in them! The white stuff on the entry hole is ceramic material.
I also have solids and API .50 BMG bullets but the soft Woodleigh did fine

I do not know if they are level III, III A or IV.

Cheers,

André

André,

It would also be interesting to know how old the plate was, as most body armor fibers have a relatively short life when it comes to upholding their full potential. The number of times it's been wet, been in the sand/dirt, etc are all factors that matter.

They are not brand new, got it from SBS connection.
maybe I should see how many a solid can penetrate

I have more

Cheers,

André

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
I had a set of "falling plates" cut from the same steel as the armour on the old South African defence force Buffel troop carriers made. Free standing nthing goes through but after most lost the welded feet ( the welds on the bases parted and we put them up resting against a tree or something some would penetrate.

It effectively stops most high velocity rounds most just leave a splat mark on them untill one day I used my 404 loaded with hard cast lead bullets. Low and behold the cast bullets knock holes through the plates whilst barnes X's stick in the plate.

The 460 Weatherby sends the plates flying off into the next farm but it does not penetrate.

The 338 lapua goes right through.

Interesting obsavations.
The .338 Lapua Magnum is KING.

I have some 650 grn API they will penetrate the world.

Cheers,

André

these look like flack plates from a frag vest made to stop schrapnell not bullets you will likely find all rifle rounds to penetrate if thats the case

you might be right.
I know very little about these vests.

Cheers,

André

quote:

Originally posted by CRUSHER:
these look like flack plates from a frag vest made to stop schrapnell not bullets you will likely find all rifle rounds to penetrate if thats the case

But not with the style of a .500 Jeffery...

Those are level III plates, comparable to the US SAPI plates.

The only body armor that would contain the jeffrey round these days is called Dragon Skin. It consists of overlapping titanium/ceramic plates.

The impact force would still f**k you up to a fare thee well.

Those .338 rounds look like just what the doctor ordered.

LD

quote:

Low and behold the cast bullets knock holes through the plates whilst barnes X's stick in the plate.

I have heard of body armor companies advertising that their vests will "stop a 44 Mag Hollow Point"

A hard cast 44 Mag bullet will go right through the same vest.

I shoot a 375 H&H with 255gr cast bullets and they will punch holes through steel plate all day long. I would love to see how they work on real armor.

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
Those are level III plates, comparable to the US SAPI plates.

The only body armor that would contain the jeffrey round these days is called Dragon Skin. It consists of overlapping titanium/ceramic plates.

The impact force would still f**k you up to a fare thee well.

Those .338 rounds look like just what the doctor ordered.

LD

They are NOT .338 bullets BUT .50 cal. BMG 650 grn API bullets on a .500 Jeffery case.

Cheers,

André

quote:

I had a set of "falling plates" cut from the same steel as the armour on the old South African defence force Buffel troop carriers made. Free standing nthing goes through but after most lost the welded feet ( the welds on the bases parted and we put them up resting against a tree or something some would penetrate.

It effectively stops most high velocity rounds most just leave a splat mark on them untill one day I used my 404 loaded with hard cast lead bullets. Low and behold the cast bullets knock holes through the plates whilst barnes X's stick in the plate.

The 460 Weatherby sends the plates flying off into the next farm but it does not penetrate.

The 338 lapua goes right through.

I loaded my .375 with 400gr Frontier Game Ranger bullets at 1950 fps which is just lead copper plates bullets. These bullets shoot straigt through these armour plates at 50 meters. My 30 -06 with 155gr match bulets at 2950 fps at 100meters just make a splat!

INTERESTING, to say the least!

Weight is KING

Cheers,

André

The plates are never used by themselfs when it comes to stopping bullets they are used with many layers of kelvar.

Stopping bullets has to more with vel and bullet make up then size of the bullet. I pointed steel core is lots harder to stop then a expanding bullet. A faster bullet is harder to stop then a bigger slower bullet.

A thread after my own heart!

This is what I've been doing the last 5 years of my life and I've gotten pretty good at it.

p dog shooter is correct. Velocity is squared in the energy formula so small increases in "V" mean exponential gains in "e". The penetration formula also takes into account the difference in hardness of the penetrator and the target. here's some videos we've done. enjoy.

50 BMG in Glass

7.62 NATO in Glass

5.56mm in Steel

quote:

Originally posted by CDH:
Jeffrey, what class of armor plate was this? I'm sure you know there are lots of different levels, from that meant to stop handgun bullets through the heavy plates intended to stop light AP and FMJ military rounds...

I'm curious where the pictured panel falls in the spectrum.

CDH, you are right there are several different levels of body armor, but it makes no difference with this round, because whether it pennetrated or not, it would still kill you, because the empact would destroy everything in you chest, anyway!

quote:

CDH, you are right there are several different levels of body armor, but it makes no difference with this round, because whether it pennetrated or not, it would still kill you, because the empact would destroy everything in you chest, anyway!

Not true! Remember, if you're wearing an 8 lb plate the energy transmitted to you is exactly what the shooter of an 8 lb rifle receives as recoil (minus loss of the bullets energy while in flight)

body armour, the light stuff, is designed to stop pistol bullets.. even level IIIA can't even stop a 7.62x39.. even with trauma plates, a 30-06 fmj will whiz through it...

and a 500jeffe, with cast bullets, will defeat 3/8" plate.

Collins,
what you are talkinig about is Momentum, not ME

jeffe

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy
http://www.1728.com/energy.htm

E=1/2*M*V^2

Steel is a (very) generic term. I can shoot a .223 through a piece of 3/8" A36 that will not leave a mark on a piece of 1/4" Mil-a-46100 (about as hard as a file) in this discussion apples HAVE to be compared to apples (or people die)

There are a lot of NIJ level IV plated heading to Iraq.

Here's a link to a PDF of important ratings

Not to piss on anyone's right to post anything on this site, but I have to question if it is morally right to show how to defeat the very items that are designed to keep the brave men and women safe in the war zone.

Paul,
using elephant rifles are armour is not exacly a battel condition, no?

Not even level IV body armour will stop a solid 535 grn Bullet from a .500 Jeffery. To much speed and weight. And the API forget about it.

Cheers,

André

I would disagree.

We use 1/2" Mil-a-46100 at a hardness of about 500 BHN. It stops the 30-06 AP round with some difficulty, but stops the .50 BMG ball with ease. I do have video. The assumptions I'm making is that the Jeffery is either a copper or bronze solid and velocity is <3000 FPS

Unless you're firing a dedicated AP round the 1/2" will stop it up to and including the BMG

Collins

Bring it on!
Ship me the plate and I will punch a hole in it and post pictures.
Sorry for the bold statement - I am drinking Ardbeg 1975 and feel frisky.
I was shooting at 2400 fps with the 535 grn soft nose.

Cheers,

André

I can also get a hold of some Cartridge, Caliber .50, Armor Piercing Incendiary (API), MK 211 Mod 0.

Used by M2 machine gun and the M107 Long Range Sniper Rifle. For use against light armored vehicles and aircraft. This cartridge provides improved penetration performance against enemy personnel and light armor vehicles.

Explosive: 13 grains (0.84 gm) Comp A-4
Incendiary composition: 13.1 grains (0.85 gm) #136

This cartridge is identified by green bullet tip identification paint. The projectile consists of a brass jacket surrounding a steel body and tungsten core with incendiary and high explosive charges.

Cheers,

André

quote:

Originally posted by JefferyDenmark:
Collins

Bring it on!
Ship me the plate and I will punch a hole in it and post pictures.
Sorry for the bold statement - I am drinking Ardbeg 1975 and feel frisky.
I was shooting at 2400 fps with the 535 grn soft nose.

Cheers,

André

No appologies needed friend! I do have a better idea tho'. Ship me the gun and ammo and I'LL pull the trigger! That's some seriously powerfull ordinance you're talking about. sound's close to the Raufoss rounds made up in your neck of the planet. First the bullet hits the target and THEN the C4 pushes the penetrator through. AAhhhhhh the art and science of making each other dead...

Yes it is the Raufoss, You know your stuff well friend.
They will penetrate most plates.
Do you think it will explode on game? That would be cool to use on Mbogo.

Cheers,

André

No matter what the armour is. Some one can built a round to defeat it. The idea behind personal armour is to wear just enough to stop what most likely will be used against you. If you try to stop the worse that could be use against you you end up with armour that one can not wear or use most of the time so it well not be on you when needed.

I wear armour every day on the job it is only pistol rated I would not like to work wearing rifle armour because of it size and weight.

If one wants to see about blunt force truma one should see the vidieo put out by 2nd chance showing then owner Richard Davis getting shot with varis rounds including 308. He most likely the most shot person in the world wearing armour. Hes said blunt force truma is BS. One can transfer a lot of force with a fist and or kick but they do not always kill.

After reading about hundreds of officer getting shot wearing soft armour they lived even after taking direct hits over the heart ect.

You well be bruised ect but it sure beats a hole in you.

I hear you P dog. I wear armour every weekend and like you only level III.
I was just horsing around with the rifle and wanted to show my friend its power with a soft nose bullet.

Here are some information on the Finish API bullet, every .500 cal. hunters dream:

http://www.nammo.com/templates/Product.aspx?id=204

Cheers,

André

COLLINS stay online buddy.

Cheers,

André

quote:

Originally posted by JefferyDenmark:
COLLINS stay online buddy.

Cheers,

André

I'm here...

Also, the next thing we're going to do (as far as the business website) is the evaluation of common materials. ie. sheetrock against a .22 lr, a car door vs. a .44 mag. AND we're going to show AFTER penetration velocities as well. I'm thinking this may have REAL value to the mil and LE community. It will be controlled via username and password. My civillian e-mail is "ww111 at yahoo.com"

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
My, my. I remember reading at some time in my mispent youth a comic book called "Sarge Rock and his Howling Commandos". Sarge Rock gets shot in the back with a 9mm Nambu, rubs his back and says, "That'll hurt for a at least a week."

Wink, no offense, but that was "sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos", not Sgt. Rock. He was in charge of Easy Company (I oughta know-I read a hundred of 'em!)

I recall reading about some African bad guys wearing body armour that were rendered hors de combat by a nitro express rifle.

Dave

There's no such thing as bulletproof.

BUT... If Bullets bounce off Supermans chest, why does he duck when the bad guy throws the gun at him?