Michigan now allows the use of straight walled rifle cartridges during muzzle loading season with a case length of 1.8 inches max. With a bum shoulder I can't do muzzle loading. The new Hornady 444's have a cartridge length of 2.13 inches with a deep seated bullet. What are the chances of cutting down a cartridge to 1.8 inches and not seating the bullet as deep? It may decrease the OAL by about an eighth inch and decrease the powder charge, but it should still be much faster than a 44 mag. Thoughts?

I don't see a problem. You would just end up with a longer throat and therefore pressure would be reduced a bit.

Just went to the pole barn and took a Hornady 444 and ground off 3/16 inch of the case and I meet the 1.8 length maximum! A small center punch on each side the the case to keep the bullet form moving rearward, and this may work.

quote:

Originally posted by optik1:
Just went to the pole barn and took a Hornady 444 and ground off 3/16 inch of the case and I meet the 1.8 length maximum! A small center punch on each side the the case to keep the bullet form moving rearward, and this may work.

Unless it'd be used in a limited pressure handgun, wouldn't you be using 100% powder loading to maximize performance thereby minimizing or eliminating any bullet rearward movement?

Yep, that will work, use 44 Rem.Mag. sizer and seater dies to crimp the bullet on cannelure, and you can use a mildly compressed charge or no, whatever you like.

As Jim said, sitting on a full case of powder, mildly compressed, the bullet won't set back.

You will have a "444 Special" to shoot in your 444 Marlin, like using a 44 Special in your 44 Rem.Mag.

You are a wildcatter.

If "444 Special" is too boring a name, call it the "444 Michigan Brush Buster."

The question is, for deer hunting why would it matter? Even a 240 grain xtp will be great for deer hunting. The 265 grain Hornady is my favorite 444 bullet because it is a bit heavier construction.

I think you might run this by the law dogs first...a game warden and/or Judge might just see 444 on the butt end, check the case length factory numbers, see it's 2.20" long and take your goodies away from you.

Why would you even ASK that question before you ran it past the people who could make your life a total mess????????? and got it OK'ed.

Is that 1.8" case length max or 1.8" CARTRIDGE over all length max...LOTS of differences there.

What you did is perfectly good to do...no different than 38/357, 44 SP/44 Mag and something I've done with my 444 just to see what's what because this question has come up before on a few forums, but I like in Oregon and no BS hunting laws like you have.

I was using some of Beartooth's 0.910, 330 gr WFNGC's at 2.50", cases trimmed to 1.8" with ~58 gr H20 volume, 2015, RL-7 and H335 and keeping the pressures down below 40KPSI..velos were running 17-2000fs..and LOTS of shoulder slapping even in my 8.5 lb fully loaded shooter.

Luck getting it done.

Check out graybeard outdoors. The guys there in other pistol states love their Hands Rifles reamed out to 357 Max and 445 Mag.

Thanks all, the matter of law enforcement has not been lost on me. The law does state an overall cartridge length of 1.8. Getting back to my original question. If the bullet is seated back about 3/16 inch from the recommended OAL how will that effect everything?

As far as terminal performance on deer I'm not too sure you will gain anythin of significance over a 44 mag. The question I have in will 44 mag ammo function in your 444 ?
What rifle are you shooting these thru?

I believe the law states case length and I had hoped to trim a 444 cartridge to 1.8 inches and shoot it in my Marlin 444. Optik1

Better check feeding first. Some marlin rifles are sensitive to overall length. If too long or short--- you get jams or need to double clutch the lever.

It's easy enough to make up some dummy's and seat the bullet out as far as you can to check function.

It depends on the bullet length. Some of the 300 gr plus Beartooth bullets I tried are 0.900" or more long and at 2.4" COAL functioned OK in my 336.

G over to Beartooth...this topic has been worked over fairly well and has lots of good information.

Just checked; Michigan...minimum .35 caliber, case length: min = 1.16" / max = 1.80", there's no mention of overall cartridge length.

Just playing with quickload. Using 1.8" case. I had no issue getting the Hornady 265 to 2000fps. That is only a couple 100 below factory 444 with the same bullet. I left the bullet seating depth the same.

Yeah...using Hornady's #4305, 265 gr gummy bear tipped bullet and A1680 right out of the Hornady manual, 2300 fs at max pressure. I would start about 40 gr and slowly work up.

This sounds "bakazzards", but it is due to the length of that bullet at 1.034".

Seating it to 2.57" standard COAL leaves ~46 gr USABLE H2O volume in the full length case, while seating it to the same COAL, 2.57", in the bottom cannelure in the 1.8" case leaves ~48 gr H20 volume.

If you had a single shot and throated for that bullet seated that out to ~2.98" you would get ~61 gr H2O and another ~170-200 fs.

Nothing wrong with the ballistics in the 1.8" case tho'...3100 ftlbs and a fairly high BC makes for a good 200 yd rifle with a PBR of 3", 180 zero.