I'm playing with the idea of buying one of the Montana left-handed actions for a big bore. I'm not particularly recoil sensitive, shoot both 338 Win Mag and 45-70 Guide Gun, so I'm trying to figure out which caliber to go with. I'm saving for a trip to Africa in a couple of three years so I need to get the ball rolling. This will be for buffalo and general fun and games here in the states. The Rigby is interesting for the added velocity possible but I don't know how it'll shoot, accuracy wise, with slower loads. The Remington probably has all the umph I'll need with the advantage of better brass availabilty. What has been y'alls experiences with these rounds?

For the Montanna long mag action, all you would need to do for a 416 rem mag is screw on a barrel and stock it.

I don't have any specs on the action, but I don't think a 416 Rigby would fit, as it is too long. I think you'll have to wait for the Montanna PH action to handle it. If the Rigby could be made to fit, it would require extensive re-work of the action, and new bottom metal.

Lewis:

I think the 416 Hoffman/Remington is the finest DG/big game cartridge available. My reasons are:

1. I believe in the 400 grain bullet at 2400 fps terminal performance which the Hoffman delivers in a trim package.

2. The 416 Hoffman/Remington is optimum powder capacity for a 416 bore. Extremely efficient and well-balanced cartridge. Standard deviation in velocity is generally less than 10 fps.

Buliwyf

Go with the Rigby. You don't have to bother with thar ridiculous belt and the Rigby is a classic cartridge. If you like you can really load it hot if you feel the need.

Dave

Lewis50,

The Rigby just wreaks of nostalgia. The trick is to hold your nose and look the other way. You'll see the Hoffman/Remington.416. Great caliber, developed by George Hoffman originally, nothing more need be said.

Joe

Ovis,
The .416 Rigby was way ahead of it's time, back in 1911. It wreaks of modern even now, with its 45 degree shoulder and beltless case. The .416 Barnes Supreme and 450 Barnes Supreme, on full length H&H cases, were knocking around prior to 1949. Everything new is old. It has all been done several times before. George Hoffman and Bob Chatfield-Taylor breathed life back into the .416 Rigby, and it is here to stay.

But, the .416 Rigby was a unique new cartridge based on no other when created in 1911. There is still no other like it, and no improvement possible to it. It has no competition, only imitators.

DaggaRon,

Those are strong words coming from one that would
blaspheme "The King & Pink Caddilacs". I'm very aware of the Rigby's history and knew I couldn't get one past you. If you had only held your nose...........................Rigby? King? There's only one King and he never had a Rigby in his Pink Caddy!

Joe

If you feel you have class, charisma, understanding of history, are good looking and extremely intelligent you'll opt for the .416 Rigby

Okay all you .416 rem lovers with your poor mans Rigby's flame away

[ 02-28-2003, 15:47: Message edited by: PC ]

from a 416 fan (me) who's around taylor, rems, and rigbys alot...

for 900 you can get
1: down payment on a ruger rigby
2: a whole winchester in remington
3: a cz, with a m70 trigger, and a $200 stock

Unless I had 2 model 70s in 338 (and then one would be rebarreled to a taylor) it would be the cz, in RIGBY...

all the rest as just rounds that want to be the rigby (sorry george, luv ya) and are fine rounds, in and of themselves... but they are not a rigby.

jeffe

I have a Rigby, but go with the Remington. The cartridge makes "more sense." AS to that comment regarding the "ridiculous belt," well, it's ridiculous. Arbuably the world's best cartridges, 375 H&H mag, 300 Weatherby, Winchester and H&H, 7 Rem Mag etc., etc., ALL have belts. Give me a break. jorge

Gentlemen:
The only reason the Hoffman exists, is at the time I could not get a Rigby or brass/ So wanting a .416 in the worse way, I come up with the nearest thing I could. I must say, it worked beyond what I thought it might and have had no reason to ever look back. I now have a m1999 Action in hand and it is on it way today to Sterling Davenport, to become a first class .416 Hoffman. I can't live without one any longer.....
George

Lewis50, After talking with several PH'S in Africa I think I would go with the Rem.416. One of the major concerns is availability of Ammo and Brass. I don't think any Buff could tell the diffrence between the two and if your luggage gets lost you might be able to find a box of 416 Rem. Also the Rem 416 will usually be lighter and would be a much better gun for Bear or Moose in Alaska or Russia. I spoke with the chaps in Montana and their barreled action was about $900 in 416 Rem.

Hawkeye47

Like I said, " The belt is a ryal pain " Any cartridge without a belt feeds much smoother. Also the "belts" will always vary in size, ie. width of the belt itself. This problem is minor but it can have an effect on the actual headspace when the round is chambered.

HI,

I can say only that I decided to go with the rigby after a long time looking at many other rounds.I think why the rigby would be the one I would go with is if someone wants to load it a little hotter you can with the rigby and still be okay with the pressure and the weight of the rifle is not much different with either, over all I think the rigby is just a little more versatile than the remington but both are very good rounds. Thanks,Kev

Excellent choice

I hear all the Rigby fans, but, how do you propose fitting the Rigby in a Model 70 style action?

If you want a 416 Rigby, simply buy a CZ-550 or a Ruger M77 magnum, or wait for the M1999 PH action.

If you want a 416 in the M1999 long action, the rem mag is the answer.

Mr. Hoffman,

Your integrity, style, and character puts you into a very high place.

Thank you.

Bob

Hawk,
Actually the CZ550 in 416 Rigby is a smidge lighter than the Win M70 in 416 RemMag!
Was weight alone the sole determinant of making the 416RemMag a "much better" bear gun or were there other more compelling issues?
------------------------

On a separate note:
With all respect intended to Mr. Hoffman.... If I heard it right, then would it be too big a stretch to say, "If some odd years ago if there hadn't been a shortage of 416 Rigby brass, then the 416 RemMags and 416 Rigbys would all be one big happy 416 Rigby family nowadays?

Never Go Undergunned
EKM

[ 03-01-2003, 02:22: Message edited by: ELKampMaster ]

If my gun says .416 Hoffman on it, I will shoot it, with pride. If it says .416 Rigby on it, I will shoot it, with pride. If it says .416 Remington on it, I will trade it for a used moped. The .416 Remington is just like a moped; it can be a lot of fun, but you just don't want your friends seeing you ride it.

Mato Hunter,

I've heard that said about fat girls too...

Joel Slate
Slate & Associates, LLC
www.slatesafaris.com

7mm Rem Mag Page www.slatesafaris.com/7mm.htm

Thanks for the opinions gang. I'm lefthanded so my choices of firearms are limited unless big bucks are waved around. I'll get with the Montana folks and see how long their long action is and go from there. The $350 for an intro lefthanded controlled feed action is too good to let go to waste.

Mato Hunter:

Count me in with Phantom Duck. I like how you think as well!

I tried to go the Winchester M70 route chambered in 416 Remington and then rechamber to The Hoffman. However, the Winshitster M70 was such a problem rifle I couldn't get the project off the ground. I'm glad it went that way because I can do better!

The way to fly is a M1999 action. Send it to Sterling Davenport and have Sterling work his magic. Ask Sterling to build his integrated expansion chamber. Barrel length 25 to 26 inches.
Ask Montana Rifles to use a unique serial number and ask Sterling to engrave it .416 Hoffman.

Buliwyf

I like the 416 Rem for one reason, it holds one or two more round in a drop box, and finishes up in a slimmer, trimmer rifle..

If I want Nostalgia I will take the 404 Jefferys, it was the one that Africa used..Few Rigbys ever saw Africa until recently, it costs to much back when..It was made nostalgic by Ruark and Hemmingway...albiet it is a fine round and was used by several famous PH later on...