The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores 450/400 3.25Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Just browsing to buy some brass the other evening and noticed Hornady offering 450-400 3.25 brass. I thought it may have been a misprint as I am aware of their 3" offering. Did a little further research and they do produce the brass but no ammo; yet? I suppose the market is just too small. Are there any real benefits to the 3.25? I think it shoots maybe 50 FPS with the same pressure as the 3" version. I suspect the downside is ammo availability. Just thinking about the Searcy raffle I am about to win and cartridge selection. EZ | ||
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I have owned a couple of 450-400-3.25s and have no problem with owning one..They shoot a tad faster and you can get them in some damn fine double rifles. All things equal I would pick a 3 inch, but all things are not always equal. both are excellent and components are available for both.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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If you have the choice, go with the 3.0" not the 3.25" because: The older 3.25" worked well as a BPE cartridge, but with Cordite loads, it had a tendency for the long neck to get sticky on extraction, and the thin rim was prone to break off the case. The Jeffery revamp with shorter neck and thicker rim and slight case body and shoulder improvements fixed it. With modern powders, both are capable of 2150 fps with 400-grainers at low pressure, nearly identical. If any difference, it would favor the 3.0" for doing it with less powder and less recoil, at nearly identical velocity and pressure. Similarly, in an 1874 Sharps replica of good steel, a smokeless 45-70 will out-do the old 45-120 BP loads. This is a no-brainer. Get the 450/400 NE 3" and avoid the 3.25". Nostalgia ain't what it used to be. | |||
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Isn't there a .395" version too ...??  | |||
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There should have been! The old 400 BPE and 400 Nitro For Black Powder Express 3" used .395 caliber bullets in the 1870's. Purdey morphed it into a .405-caliber on the same straight case. Jeffery and others morphed it into a bottle-necked 450/400 of all lengths from 2-3/8" to 3-1/2", finally settling on the best at 3.0". You allude to the 400/.395 Nitro Express 3-Inch "Aboriginal," eh? That is what could have been done, should have been done, to keep with the standard progressions such as with the 450 BPE and 500 BPE straight, rimmed cases to Nitro Express. The 400/.395 NE 3" Aboriginal (aka 10.03 x 75R) does exist and will easily push a 410-grainer at over 2200 fps at modest pressure in my 26" barreled Ruger No.1. Thanks for asking. | |||
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One nit to pick. There was never a 45-120 in the sharps. The biggest 45 surviving today are the 45 110 which is 2 7/8 case. They may have been something built on the 1885, I dont remember. But the 45/120 is a round that pretty much never was. Pretty similar to the 700NE, in being a modern fantasy round. Interesting about the 3" v. 3.25 400 rounds. Clearly the 3 inch is the way to go all things being equal. Another in long list of bigger not always better. | |||
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EZ If you're going to win or purchase a new gun, indeed get the 3" version. The ONLY reason I say this is because Craig Boddington and Steve Hornady chose the 3" case to produce ammo (which I have no problem with). Boddington explains this very well in his Safari Rifles II. I have two .450/.400 3 1/4" vintage guns and would not hesitate to purchase more. I handload so it makes no difference to me. It will also make no difference to the buffalo. The difference you will see is on the re-sale market due to the availability of very reasonably priced Hornady factory ammo. Good luck! Deo Vindice, Don Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780 | |||
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But you won't see good 450/400 3 1/4" older guns sit on the shelf for long either. They will still be snapped up if the prices of them are not out of this world. . | |||
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Absolutely. The 3.25 started life as a BP round. The 3 inch has always been a Nitro cartridge. The pressure is actually a bit less in the 3 inch, if memory serves me coreectly. The 3 inch is easier to reload and you don't have to worry about stripping the 3 1/4's paper thin rim off the case! If you find a 3 1/4 at the right price and want a nostalgic vintage rifle get it. While I have several friends who have 3 1/4 chambered rifles, I'd got for the 3 inch rifle, every time! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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After reading these responses. The 3" certainly make more sense for a "new" gun. Thanks for your insight. EZ | |||
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If I was getting a new double I would get a 3". However I have fired around 15 hundred rounds from my 400 3 1/4" double with no problems. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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If I found the right rifle in either of the 450/400s I wouldn't spend much time worrying about which cartridge, the rifle would decide. One point I would make is in a vintage rifle the 450/400 3 1/4 will often regulate around 2100 to 2150 fps while many of the 450/400 3" rifles will regulate between 1950 to 2000 fps, especially if they are 55 cordite rifles with 24" barrels. In both my Jeffery doubles with 24" tubes the Hornady ammo struggles to hit 2000 fps which matches my regulation Woodleigh loads. Any brass problems with the 3 1/4 were solved ages ago. I doubt a Buffalo could tell the difference but if I was going after Elephant I'd want a much velocity as I could get. In a new rifle I'd still go with the 3" version but I'd have 26" barrels. | |||
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I have some 450-400 3 1/4 Kynoch ammo for sale since I sold my double awhile back ago. I have 50 rounds (10 boxes) of soft points and 30 rounds (6 boxes) of solids. It's all recent production. PM me if you are interested. | |||
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