Not sure where to place this so as it concerns big bores I figured this would be the place.

Are laminated stocks, if properly crossbolted and wrist pinned, any more likely to split than solid wood?

I believe the laminates are less likely to split than solid wood, especially with cross bolts and such.

Less likely IMHO.


However, it still will come down to how the gun is stocked
and if it is done properly.

It seems logical that if properly bedded, crossbolted, and wrist pinned, a laminated stock of good quality would be less likely to break, partly due to the glue and the alternating orientation of the wood grain.

George

Most of the breaks I have seen in Wood (Walnut)
are from the gun not being properly stocked.

Splits / Cracks around the Mag well or where the tang is from not being relieved properly.

.

The reason for asking is I have recently acquired a 600 OK that has the start of a wrist crack. It has crossbolts and I believe a wrist pin and is a laminated stock. While looking for replacement stocks especially those with wider fore ends I am having limited success except for a few target type stock profiles. I know that may not be the style of choice, but I like target stocks, most of them fit me well.

drew,

What action is it? Would an aluminum-bedded laminate like those offered by Accuracy Innovations work?

George

Where did it crack ?

And work out why it cracked before proceeding.


I know of a few stocks with wide fore ends, the problem is
who is going to do the inletting ?

PM sent.

Andy, my 550 Magnum is a laminate and no problems to date, despite a fair amount of abuse. It's cross-bolted and pinned. The tang and actions screws have plenty of relief, too.

Laminates are birch and can be weak if the glue-job isn't 100% (like any other plywood). That's a defect there's no test for, unless it is visible during the making of the stock. A weak glue job allows a birch ply to split between the limit of the penetration of the resins.

I have some experience in this area, busted a few stocks in my day. The aluminum chassis that Accurate Innovations installs in all their stocks solved all my issues and problems, never had a problem with an AI stock. Sometimes we can get by in some of the rifles with factory stocks, all are bedded proper, but depends on the grain too. The 500 MDM busts every stock you put on it except an AI stock. The 50 B&M is a stock buster too, not as bad as the 500 MDM, which busted two, 1 after 18 rounds, the other after 4 rounds.

Below is a stock I busted after several 100 rounds in a 50 B&M, replaced it with an Accurate Innovations Turkish.




We busted this one on a 50 B&M a few weeks ago. It was ugly.






This aluminum chassis solves all those issues easy. As you can see it's not just sitting in the action, but running up the barrel channel and is attached at several points, distributing and absorbing recoil over a very large area. Grip and wrist are pinned also for strength.



They can do laminated, or any other sort of wood too. I don't care much for laminated, but have a lot of stocks done by them for my rifles. In fact, they are working on 6 stocks for rifles currently for me.

Here are just a few samples of AI stocks I have.









Hope this helps some, see link below for AI.

http://www.accurateinnovations.com/


Michael

My rifle is built on an Enfield, pattern 14 I believe. The start of a crack is centered and directly behind the rear most portion of the action. It is only visible from the top. It looks like the start of delamination. I'll try to get a picture here by the end of the weekend. Not the most popular action to find a stock for. I am thinking quarter sawn straight grained Turkish with extra meat for a wide fore end. I really like the stocks on my Remington 40Xs, but not sure if that is a good design for a bore bore.


I will have this rifle at the Hoot & Shoot on 23 October for examination and for any sucker... I mean brave soul that wants to shoot it.

Andy

Michael,

The picture where you show the bedding block....are the stocks purchased with it installed or is the block purchased as a "part" and then installed by the shooter or gunsmith.

Mike

All Accurate Innovations stocks come installed with the Chassis. Cannot purchase as a part.

M

I just went to their site, very interesting.

I think we can get stocks into Australia without all the usual fucking around. Although these days with brass, bullets etc. the problem is at the US of A end and the export issue.

Mike

No, I am sure you would not have any issues with getting a stock sent over. Later this year I am exporting two rifles along with brass and bullets over to Paul Truccolo. Bullets have not been a problem, dies, anything like that, but brass is a big No No, on your side of the pond.

Michael

I am in the process of ordering an AI stock right now for my 458 AR rifle.. They look awesome, and from the credit Doc M is giving them, I just need to try one asap

Buff

Tell me Tell Me--Wood?? What kind of wood are you looking at????????

English is heavy, about a 1/2 lb more than turkish and claro. You probably want turkish or english for the AR. Of course there is Myrtle and Maple too??? Damn, I do love wood stocks, and AI solves all issues with the big bores. I have that one stainless 500 MDM on that Claro. Now Claro is not as strong or tight as turkish and english. Zero issues. I have maybe 400 + rounds thru that gun and nothing, no problems, no nothing. So on the 458 AR it will be jam up most any wood you choose.

I was going to choose some claro for these 458 Lotts I am building but I let Wes talk me out of it and they are all turkish and english.

Love them both!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Mike

No, I am sure you would not have any issues with getting a stock sent over. Later this year I am exporting two rifles along with brass and bullets over to Paul Truccolo. Bullets have not been a problem, dies, anything like that, but brass is a big No No, on your side of the pond.

Michael

That's strange, as ALL of the above items have to go on the B709A form and a B709A form is required.

Why the big "no no" for the Brass ?

.

500N

I don't know what the issue is with the brass. A few months ago I sent Con some 458 B&M dies, and some other stuff I don't remember, and just empty samples of 458 B&M brass. Maybe 10 pieces of brass or so. Your Customs confiscated them???? Don't know?

I send a friend of mine dies, and many other things, fill out our customs forms, he receives, picks up at customs on your side and has no issues with anything. But I have not sent him brass. When he imported his rifles we did the brass with the rifle import.

Michael

If the brass wasn't on his B709A and Con didn't know they were coming, then yes, they probably did confiscate them.

But if they were on his B709A, then god knows what they were thinking.


Never include anything in a parcel to Ausralia that the person hasn't asked for. This happens quite a bit from the US where people throw in a "sample" or a freebie (ie a brass case) without telling the person in Australia and it causes all sorts of problems.

Yes, the Gov't is anal in this country !!! LOL

.

500N

Yes, I think that I threw those in and Con didn't know. Trying to be a nice guy, yep, learned me lesson!

Hey, it's just not Australia, it's our idiots too! Does not matter yours, or ours, all totally useless and ignorant. If they could get a job somewhere else, they would not be where they are, but of course they can't!!!!!

Michael

well Michael - "Pepper" laminate

Laminate! Gees, that's not wood, plywood. I try to be ok with laminate. Even had some engraving done on some laminated stocks to try and like them better. Like the engraving, but still can't really warm up to laminated. Pepper Laminate? Will have to have a look.

I had a fellow I know engrave a bear scene, head, tracks, all sorts of things on one, then a lion on another. Looks great, but still a piece of plywood.

M

Well M - I havent decided yet - will put order through next week - maybe I CAN be persuaded to "real" wood

Maybe I should go for turkish or english walnut...?

I would rather have a XTurkish or XEnglish that a piece of plywood. Plywood is heavy too, all that glue!

Love my Myrtle, but I don't like the way it turns color over time. Maple is dandy, don't turn color, stays blonde. XX Claro is a reasonable price too, and sometimes very nice.

M

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Love my Myrtle, but I don't like the way it turns color over time. Maple is dandy, don't turn color, stays blonde.
M

You like blondes..??

Just the stocks! When it comes to women, mine have to have black hair! HEH

Hey guys, I'm no expert on big bore stocks, but I know someone who is. He is the department manager of one of, if not the, largest synthetic stock manufacturer in the country. He has many contacts, but one of them owns a huge piece of South Africa and is required by the government to cull large numbers of game animals on his property. The meat goes to the local population. His people were using .458s to cull and their wood and synthetic stocks were failing after too few rounds. His solution was laminated wood. Be aware that there is a range of quality in laminated wood. The best laminated wood will take hundreds of rounds without a quibble. If you'll notice I haven't mentioned name brands but you can figure things out.

I'm not sure there is any strength benefit in laminate, in fact, it may be a place for the stock to split. I had a laminate stock split in the recoil lug area of my 338-06, not exqactly a hard kicker. Properly bedded w/ glassed cross bolts, it should hang together well. Anything that kicks more than an 06, I like bedded cross bolts. When I had my 404j made on a M70 factory stock, I had both lugs cross bolted.

Well I think bedding and cros bots (or a alu bedding block like AI offers) is more important. But still I think laminate is stronger. You can glue a split stock and it will seldom split in that place again.. The glue (epoxy) is stronger than the wood I think. But on the other hand - I have never experienced a split stock in my life - either wood or laminate... But on the other hand - all my big bores have been bedded and cross bolted correktly from the beginning..

Buffalo,

quote:

Well I think bedding and cros bots (or a alu bedding block like AI offers) is more important.

I would add properly clearanced inletting of the tang portion of the receiver to the stock in you list as essential to insuring the longevity of a stock.