If you were considering having a DGR built, which would be you preference, a 404 Jefferys or a 416 Rigby??? and reasoning behind your choice???...

Appreciate your insight...Thanks

Jim: My only expereince is with the 416 Rigby, but I think I've researched and spoken with enough people to certainly give you my thoughts. The Rigby definetly gives you a distinct advantage in velocity, even when loaded with relatively mild loads, I can attain 2500 fos with 400gr TSXs and 2660 with 350s and again that's "mildly" pushing the envelope.

I've seen 404, get to 2400 which is PLENTY of poop for anything, hell the caliber did a great job even at original velocities.

The 404 has TWO advantages going for it my opinion. One, it can be had on a smaller action which is nice, and it gives you a slight edge in frontal area. Bottom line is I don't think there's much difference between the two when it comes down to killing anything, but that smaller action is very enticing to me.

The Rigby's HUGE action is a detractor, as if I'm I'm going to carry something that big, might as well be a 45. Then again loaded with 350gr TSXs @ 2660 fps, I can easily get out to 300 yards if that's all I'm carrying when that trophy "whatever" shows up in the distance and according to Randy Brooks, that 350 hammers buffalo. Tough choices, but hell, that's half the fun! jorge

jorge,

Always appreciate your insight

I have a bit of experience with the Rigby but absolutely none with the 404 Jefferys. Did my best to use the AR search and that provided a measure of help.

I think I understand the Rigby's "performance envelope", less so with the 404...so that is one part to the puzzle??

As you note, the AR searches confirm as well, the size of action being different for each...but how does this translate into handling characteristics and weight of finished rifle??? Obviously, a shorter bolt throw is an advantage to consider...

There also seems to be some AR posts noting that the 404, given shoulder slope/lack of belt, may feed slicker???

Hopefully, a few here can assist with filling in the blanks and possibly offer other contrast, if any, between the two.....

I do understand 404 components are not as readily available as 416 Rigby....but not sure of what is available for the 404 in terms of bullet weight, styles and brass...

Any and all contributions appreciated!!!

I agree with jorge. If one keeps to the original Kynoch loadings, there is little difference in performance. All of the english cartridges were tested with 30" barrels for their velocity ratings. When the actual barells are 22-26 one see's there was a lot of optimism and "blue sky" in the expected velocity. I like the 404 because it can be made up into an rifle that is lighter weight, handier to carry, and equally as potent. Both will have pressures less than a factory loaded 416 Remington. Large case, moderate speed, and heavy bullet weight are the keys to success. I think the 404 kicks less in similarly stocked and weighted rifles.

I've got one of each. The .416 is a CZ 550 Magnum, the 404 is on a Model 70 action. I can cycle the 404/Model 70 action faster then the CZ in 416 with less risk of a short stroke. That is probably the only pertinent difference between MY two rifles in terms of what I might one day do with them. I shoot my 404 more accurately than my 416, but it is splitting-hairs-differences in accuracy, not inches of accuracy. Since I couldn't decide either, I bought one of each.

I have seen both the 416s and the 404 used a fair amount on buffalo but not nearly as much as 458 calibre rifles. The 404 loads have been the RWS using a 400 grain solids at about 2,350 fps. I haven't noticed much difference in their effect on buffalo from both 416's using both Federal and Remington ammo.

They all work fine. I just had a 404 made on an Argentine 1909 action to play with and what I do not like is the fact that because the case is fatter it only holds 2 in the magazine like a Mark V Weatherby in 460. Same problem.

Three of the big five come in groups. Lions come in prides, elephants and buffalo in herds and hippo in pods. Sometimes a lioness gets upset when you shoot the male, sometimes cow elephants look for you, and if a buffalo herd starts ringing when one of them steps on a calf, its nice to have more magazine capacity so you can use at least one shot to kick dust in their face to put them on notice and still have two ready.

For that reason my choice would be the 416 Remington and if you can get it to feed with a larger magazine box made as a six shooter.


VBR,


Ted Gorsline

I'd say 404.

The 416 Rigby is a grand round, but I can't see using an action the size needed to handle it on anything smaller than a 50 cal.

To me a 40 cal should be built on magnum length action and kept on the lighter side, which to me limits the chamberings to the 404 and 416 Rigby.

For a large magnum action, make mine a 500 Asquare for a practicle choice, or 505 Gibbs for a classy choice.

The other guys pretty much covered it. When I decided to sell my .458Lott (too much rifle for me ) I went w/ the .404jeffery. It fits nicely in a M70 w/ 3 in the std. mag & one up the spout, that's enough fire power for anything I think I need to hunt.
If you are not a handloader, then the Rigby is the choice as you can get factory ammo. Ammo maybe available for the .404jeffery soon, but it's a handloaders round right now. 400gr bullets @ 2250fps is easy on the shooter & smacks all game very hard. If shot side by side I doubt there wpuld be little diff. on game. There are more manuf. making bullets in .416 but the available ones for the .423, Swift, Woodleigh, NorthFork & Barnes solids, are certainly adequate. So it's really going to come down to what rifle you want. Ruger RSM/Rigby, CZ/take your pick, M70 or Mauser/.404.

It's a hard choice hence I have a .404 J on a 1909 not to far away and a couple of cz .416's (one with a composite stock the other an American model which should be in next week) I think the .416 has more flexibility as pushing the velocity envelope and there is a 450 gr woodleigh .416 bullet available which for Buff hunters might be great for taking advantage of that huge rigby case.

Alos I do not know for sure but I doubt there is to much difference between a stock cz 550 .416 Rigby and a Model 70 .416 Rem mag, the big cz also evens up the amount of rounds you would be able to hold as well. CZ make a .404 J now and it holds 4 or 5 down.

Choose the cartridge you like best and if you cant decide you will need to get both............