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Hi Alf, hi all
I have some additional information regarding the .404 Sch�ler Magnum. Some are different from what you assume, so in this case I must correct you. In one or the other way I will make your day�����.
The .404 Sch�ler Magnum ( I will call it .404 SM ) is not based on the .404 Jeffery, because the case is much larger!
With a base diameter of measured 14,79 mm for the .404 SM is nearly identical to the big Weatherby case without the belt, which has a base diameter above the belt of 14,78 mm. Case capacity is on par with the .416 Rigby.
In Germany the only know case of the .404 SM is located at the Suhl proof house, but this case has no head stamp, which was not unusual for the time it was developt. The case is mounted on a display together with others sorted by makers name and stand beside the 500 Sch�ler (12,5x70), which has also no head stamp. Many Sch�ler cases at that time were manufactured by the company Roth, which use seldom head stamps for prototypes.
Your friends case/cartridge is not an old one � is was manufactured around 1994 by Rolf Ziegenhahn, a Gun and Rifle maker in Zella Mehlis which is 8 km far away from Suhl. He used .460 Weatherby cases by turning down the belt, forming and shorting it slightly.
The company Ziegenhahn & Sohn has the Zi-Di Trademark since 1931 � so that was the reason for using it on the head stamp of the new manufactured .404 SM cartridges. By the way mine has a A-Square soft point bullet on it another prove that it is not an original one!
Rolf Ziegenhahn knows the old Richard Sch�ler personally and also his Son in law Mr. Goez. When the old facility ground was destroyed at around 1986 ( at that time still the old DDR ) he was able to take some tooling and also a couple of old advertising documents which was dated from 1934 on which the .404 SM is shown. He also has the opportunity to look at a big box of unsorted cases. He did not find a single .404 SM but lots of .450 Musket No. 2. Mr. Rolf Ziegenhahn assumes that this case was used to form samples after turning down the rim for the .404 SM because the base diameter is very close. Ziegenhahn & Sohn building fine side by side rifles and shot guns and they have a webside: www. Ziegenhahn.de
For anyone who is interested in a picture of the .404 SM I have one available, so I can send it to someone who is able to present it here in this page.
Robert

Thank you for this excellent information. I will gladly post the photo for you. Send it anytime.

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Hi Nickudu,
thank you for the offer. You should have a personal email with the picture by now.

Hi ALF,
The bullet diameter is .423 or 10,75 mm. All .404 Sch�ler Magnum cases with the Zi-Di head stamp are made by Rolf Ziegenhahn. He build himself a bold action rifle for it and financed his project with dummy cartridges he sold to the public.
You must not wait until mid of December, I can do the measurement for you now.

Robert

577 Robert - Not as yet, sir.

Alf and 577 Robert,
Thanks for bringing this fascinating story to light. I hope 577 Robert can post some case measurements.

Nickudu,
Sure hope you can find time to post the photo that 577 Robert sent to you.

Still no photo. Sending it again may be a good idea.

Hi Nickudu,
I have just send it again - to the email adress which is behind user name - hope it is still valid.
Robert

Robert I will also be glad post if in Nickudu is having email trouble.

I have received many emails, since extending the offer. (?)

[ 11-21-2003, 18:08: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

Hi Nickudu, hi Doug, hi all
it seems to be that I have an email problem with the provider. I have send the picture twice to Nickudu and one drawing with the cartridge measurments to Doug. Because I wonder why I did not get any response for other mails I send a test mail to a friend and he also did get nothing! So I appologize but I work on it ( on the provider ) to made it work.
As soon as they have the problem fixed, I try it again. Because its Friday afternoon here in Germnay I don't no if it will work before Monday. Again sorry, but the data is available as soon as the bloody thing is working again.
Robert

L-R
.404 Jeffery / .404 Sch�ler Magnum / .416 Weatherby Magnum

[ 11-21-2003, 22:21: Message edited by: Nickudu ]

Whoa! Now THAT is a heavy hitter.
Hmmmm. I have been having problems with this stupid .375 I accidentally bought. Maybe I should scrap the barrel and make one of these?

Thanks Nickudu,
I think I should explain the picture a little bit.
left case is a .404 Jeffery
in the middle cartridge of .404 Sch�ler Magnum
right case is a .416 Weatherby Magnum
Hope Doug has gotten also the drawing with the measurements.
Robert

Thanks all.

Send the drawing if you wish, just in "case".

Hi Nickudu,
I send the drawing Monday morning to you when I am in the Office.
Robert

Nickudu,
thanks for your help
Robert

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Ja, originally from Rigby. More lately from turning the belt off a .416 Weatherby.

That severely rebated rim is as scary as a 425 WR. I think the 404 Jeffery wins this beauty contest.

Thanks for broadening my horizons.

[ 11-24-2003, 19:38: Message edited by: RIP ]