The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Swift A frames in 416Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| One of Us |
I'm picking up some factory ammo for a good deal for my 416 rem mag. Mix of 350gr and 400gr a frames. I'll stick to whatever is more accurate, but if theres no discernable different in accuracy, would i be going wrong to use the 350gr a frames for buffalo and N. American game? (Getting 160rds of loaded 350gr and 20 of the 400gr swifts and then 120rds of 400gr barnes solids, will handload with whatever bullet shoots best after this supply has been depleted) | ||
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Go ahead use whichever you are happy with. No animal would know the difference. | |||
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A-Frame....great hunting bullet! | |||
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+1  | |||
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Very true. As long as you keep the velocity low like in this cartridge. I have only tried them in fast 7mm rifles. And in every case they lost all the lead from the rear section. Of course, they killed the animals, but personally I prefer to use mono metal hollow points for my rifles in higher velocities. | |||
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Once i burn through my factory loads i plan on pushing them to about what the factory loads them too. No reason to go faster | |||
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My .416 Rem. loves the 400 grain A Frames and will put them in the same hole from a rest. Never tried the 350 grain bullets. But they have performed flawlessly. Recovered bullets will clearly tell you how far the shot was by how far back they mushroom. But always evenly. | |||
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I've settled on 100rds of federal ammi with 400gr a frames. Will probably just reload the 400gr after i shoot all these if my rifles shoots them accurately | |||
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I would opt for the 400 gr. for buffalo inasmuch as on many occasions you take back up shots as the animal turns to run after the firet hit..I personally like the 450 gr. Woodleigh in the .416... But lots of good bullets out there today and they all work with proper placement. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Pretty confident you'll like the 400 grain Swift A frames. I just use Federal Premium and don't bother to reload anymore. | |||
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Well i have 100rds of the fed premium. After its shot i will be reloading though. I considered trying the tbbc but i don't think I need too | |||
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I've used TBBC and they worked fine as well, as did Woodliegh's (sp.) and even Nosler partitions, although of the group, the Noslers are my least favorite on buffalo. | |||
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I probably wont be hunting buffalo for quite some time, mostly elk, moose and brown bear, as far as game id need a premium bullet for. Main reason I'm considering the a frames over woodleighs this time is availability and price. I've been thoroughly pleased with woodleighs for everything else I've used them in but they are way more expensive in 416 and not always available. A frames were the cheapest i found besides dgx and i won't use those | |||
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Saeed, how fast were you pushing them? 3100 fps or much faster? Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I had a hard time spending about $100 for the Nosler Partition (458 500 gr). Although I did really want to try some. Also wanted to try the woodleigh 500 PP. My understanding is that do not open up quite so much as the round nose at the same velocity. I would not push beyond 2200 FPS. | |||
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I've been using Nosler Partitions since I was in my 20s living in an $80 month apartment in Missoula (which was nice but right next to the train tracks) loading with a Lee Loader (hand tool). A premium bullet (Partition, A-Frame, Barnes TSX, Woodleigh) is cheap insurance. I used to use Sierra's 90g HPBTs in my 270 for practice and varmints. They were cheap and very accurate. I used 150g Partitions for everything else (elk, deer, black bear). I killed my brown bear at 13 yards with an 300g A-Frame from a 375 Weatherby. Not only did it penetrate the bear diagonally (entering the right front shoulder, ending up in the hide after penetrating the left rear leg), but it still weighed 299.5 grains.   Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
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I have started loading 350 Swifts in my 416 Ruger as the late Andy Runyon seemed to think that on our big bears the extra velocity made some difference. They are also a little easier on the shoulder with the old canoe paddle Ruger stock and it's ribbed hockey puck recoil pad. Will be interesting to compare my experiences with my daughter who likes the 300 gr TSX in her 416 Remington Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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I prefer Barnes X bullets, but by all accounts the Swift A Frames will do the job. I’d rather use 400 grain bullets on buff, but would think the 350s have enough SD to penetrate well enough. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I shot about 20 head of PG, including Eland with the A-Frame and recovered a lot of bullets that cloned each other perfect mushrooms with a swelling under the mushroom..Later shot some Cape buffalo and Hippo with them..actually I prefer the somewhat softer Sirroco to the A frame for PG, and really like the A-frame on Buffalo..My only experience with Swift bullets has been with the .416 REm. Oooops, thats not right I did a PG hunt with the 338 an Swift A frames..I found the A frames though expanding perfectly were smooth like a muzzle loader ball and game ran a long ways at times...I talked to swift and the advised me that they were coming out with a better bullet called the Sirocco for lighter animals, and it worked well indeed on PG.. Ive used the Noslers on everything including many buffaloand Hippo in the 338, 375 and 416 and its always been a great bullet IMO..Seems to me that all todays bullets work as advertised, that has not always been the case, but the ammo boys have done their job and done it well..I recall when Barnes Bullets were subject to failure and had some bad experiences, but like every other bullet maker they listened and then fixed it..A few did not listen to their constituents and they fell by the wayside.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Have you shot buffalo with the 450 gn Woodleigh? In Rigby or Rem? What load did you use and how was the performance? USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Drongo, I killed half a dozen buffalo with the 416 and 404, using the 450 gr. PP and RN and 3 with the 375 with 350 gr PP and RN for Geoff who I was somewhat instrumental in designing RN, the PP was Geoffs Idea, and I might add the better bullet when all was done..I sent all those bullet recovered to Geoff..and been using them every since, well up until I retired a couple of years ago. Add to that a big bull elk and a Bison..My grandson used it on another bison. My load in the 416 and 404 was the 450 RN and PPs, at 2350 FPS average with a dollop of RL-15, where the accuracy was in my guns.. I also shot the largest buffalo and the prettiest buffalo Ive ever shot, or seen for that matter. He resides in my house for eternity, a real old warrior with tail ate off and a 375 gr swift A frame that was in a baseball size healed up callus. That perfectly expanded bullet had penetrated both lungs some year prior to me killing him..a scar through both lungs was found when gutted it looked like 4 smaller lungs more or less..He was fat and healthy, and full of fight, took one shot in the lungs, and another face on for an instant kill.. I think the 450 gr. 40 caliber bullet PP is as good as a DG bullet gets. The Rn is a real killer, but with less penetration and best for the thick stuff..I got the impression the 450 bullet equaled one caliber advance to the 416 and 404 and in the 458 caliber category, not scientific, just observation for what its worth. Another favorite was the No. Fork cup point, its an awesome penetrator and does a lot of internal damage, an amazing bullet for buffalo, and the best of both worlds, an expanding solid so to speak.... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray, thanks for the info. Were you shooting a .416 Rigby or Remington? Does the Rem have the case capacity to handle the 450 gn without excess pressure? USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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I cannot remember the velocity, but they were shot in a 7.21 Lazzeroni rifle, which very fast. | |||
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I shot the 450 RN and PP and solids in my Remington 416 with RL-15 powder with no issues what so ever...also in the 404 Jefferys and the 375 H&H (350 gr.)..awesome results.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Thanks. Midway has the Woodleigh 450 gn on back order. I will give them a try when they get in. USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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I'm not a big fan of the Barnes 400 grain. I shot a large South Texas Whitetail, dressed over 175 lbs., totally broadside at about 80 yards. Placed the shot a bit back to keep from tearing things up. Should have been a perfect heart shot. Buck dropped at the shot, but bullet deviated severely and exited a full six inches forward and out the top of the off shoulder. Not a problem on a whitetail, he died right there. But I wouldn't want that sort of deviation on a buffalo. I won't use them on heavy game. | |||
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Phil, One thing for sure that Ruger boat paddle stock is tough and if the gun jams you could crush a buffalo or bears head in then go home and chop up a cord or wood, strong stock!!  I would opt for a 350 gr. bullet for elk, Moose, and probably bear..it shoots flat as a fritter, and hammers anything that gets in its way...My friend Ross Seyfred shot many buffalo with the 416 and 350 gr. bullets during his 11 years of PH days in Africa.. IMO 300 grs. is getting too close to a musket ball!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Hyak, Ammo shortages abound and my go to is Federal Premium with Swift A Frames. Can't find them. If you're interested and you plan on reloading anyway, I have a lot of .416 brass that I'd willingly trade for factory ammo. Let me know if you're interested. I might sweeten the pot. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Swift A frames in 416
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