Hi all!
I am one of the regular lurkers on this forum and I have found it to be an ocean of information. Thank you Saeed and every one contributing!

At this point I have some questions I hope to find answers for hence I temporarely stop lurking.
I happened to bump in to a Rifle which caught my attention and I need some information about it.
Is is built on a standard lengt M98 action, no square bridges. Chambered for the .416 Rigby and the lettering on the barrel reads "John Rigby Sackville Str London", the front reciever ring has the words "Rigby 416 for Big Game" on it.
How do I know this is in fact a Rigby made rifle?!

Serial number is 5927, matching on all parts of the action. I could not locate any other stamps or lettering on the action or barel, at least not above the stock line. Stock wood is fairly plain and the recoil pad is likely not the original one. The barrel has a short, perhaps 3-4" long Quarter rib (if you could call it that) just in front of the reciever, one standing, two folding blades. Coffin lid type magazine holding 4 rounds. The front sight seems to be made out of a 3"(approx) peice of steel machined into a tube shape of the same profile as the barrel and soldered on to the barrel. The bluing is fairly worn and the stock has seen a lot of handeling. The barrel has plenty of rifeling left but I think it is faifly pitted (have not bore scoped it though).
No history on the gun is avalable from the current owner.
The stock design and the balance of the rifle is just superb, like nothing I have tried befor.

Any one who can tell me any thing about this gun? How much should I pay for it?!

Well, for a start it should have English proof marks on it.

Then match the proof marks - which can be dated between the years to the serial number and when we know it was roughly made.

Someone has the Rigby records so getting the record for that gun should be reasonably easy.

Lastly, throw a photo of it up if you can, people will be able to pick any problems just by looking at it.

Can a 416 Rigby be built on a standard-length 98 action? I know they used to "notch" the rear of the action housing to make a 375, but didn't know about a full-length 415 Rigby.

Is it the one Puglisi has for $20K?

Biebs:

Wasn't Harry Selby's famous .416 Rigby built on a non-magnum 1898 Mauser action? Maybe that's why it was for sale in Nairobi! But I guess it worked pretty well.

Yes, Selby's was on a standard action.
I have no idea how many were built up by Rigby on the standard length action though.
The one at pugsguns.com is the only one I have seen for sale in the last few years since I have been paying attention to Mausers in general, so can't really comment on the $20K asking price. Don't like the bolt handle compared to an Oberndorf though.
IMO, there are way too many magnum length big bore Mausers out there to tempt me into a gun such as this. Unless it is quite reasonably priced or has some special provenance.

Huvius

The way that bolt handle is makes it extremely fast to operate.

Certainly there is nothing to stop the dishonest looking through old auction catalogues and then "cloning" that rifle.

I am told that it happens a lot in India with the "cloning" of bogus Holland and Holland shot guns.

The prospective "mark" contacts H & H with the serial number to be told "Yes Sir that's a H & H 12 bore with 28" barrels and stock of 14.5" long".

And the "cloned" gun? It will also be just as that description.

So yes, proof marks and all, it would be possible to "clone" a Rigby from an old auction catalogue listing from say the 1970s.

The only real safeguard is either to buy from a reputable source OR to have someone with an expert knowledge examine the weapon.

There will usually be ever so light, or sometimes ever so obvious, details that will say that the item is or isn't genuine.

For instance you would never see a true Rigby with a six groove left hand twist rifled barrel or somesuch.

Personally I really don't see this "fetish" for paying a lot of money for a rifle with a worn or shot near shot out bore (and an awkward safety system compared to modern Mauser safeties) just because it was "made by Rigby" or retailed by Westley Richards or whoever.

Sorry but it is no more or no less what it is. A basic Mauser 98 worked on by a competent firm of gun makers. No matter whose name is on the barrel!

For a lot less than that $ 20,000 I'd sooner have, at least in 416 Rigby, a good "custom" CZ from the CZ Custom Shop....

Rigby's also had a distinctive style for writing on the barrels and the calibre et al on the action.

Proof marks from a long time ago are the quickest "quick" check to see if the serial number, look of the rifle matches up with the dates the proof marks were put on.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Huvius

The way that bolt handle is makes it extremely fast to operate.

I could see that, if only minutely faster than the original. I just prefer the Oberndorf style.

Thank you all for the info!

This rifle is on display at one of the gun stores in Stockholm, Sweden. No price tag, the owner is apparently waiting for a good offer.

I called the shop to day and asked for more information. The person i spoke to was sure there are proof marks on the gun but covered by the stock. He did not have the time to look in to it now but asked me to call back next week for more info.
I am in no way an expert but I don't think proof marks are commonly placed where they can not be seen with out taking the gun appart. Any one know if this is likey to be true?

Hopefully I'll be pasing by Stockholm again in a week or so. I'll bring a camera and try to post a few pictures for you all to see here then.

Once again, thanks for all your answers!

http://www.americanrifleman.or...42-kwaherisafari.pdf
Lots available on
Harry Selby's .416 Rigby on a standard M98:


My photobucket account is still crashed, but others work.

quote:

Originally posted by Klein:
I called the shop to day and asked for more information. The person i spoke to was sure there are proof marks on the gun but covered by the stock. He did not have the time to look in to it now but asked me to call back next week for more info.
I am in no way an expert but I don't think proof marks are commonly placed where they can not be seen with out taking the gun appart. Any one know if this is likey to be true?

On an English made Rigby the proof marks should be visible on the barrel above the stock line, generally on the right side.

See below.

Whilst there was never anything in the British Proof Act that said that the marks had to be visible when the gun was in its stock....it is very unusual to find a gun from that period where they are not visible when the gun is in the stock.

That does suggest that the gun may have been re-stocked at a later date and so covering up the marks.

I wouyld ask for the serial number and see what either Rigby or the internet can reveal. I am wondering if this is one of the PARKER HALE made Rigby rifles?

The proofs on my Rigby 350 are under the wood, and it is a '20s gun.
I think that all of the 416s I have seen have had their proofs visible. Either way is possibe I would think.

I always thought that a standard M98 was too small an action to handle the 416 Rigby. There must have been an awful lot of metal work removed under that front recoil lug (I know the English converted standard M98's to handle the .375 H&H the same way).

Or does the low working pressure of the 416 Rigby (45,000 PSI) enable one to safely chamber this case in an M98.

Cheers,

Michael.

I had a Rigby built 416 many years ago that I bought from Cape Outfitters which was also built on a standard length 98 Mauser action. The rifle had the drop magazine, and still had the extra front sight blade in the pistol grip cap.

The markings and name on my rifles was exactly how you described your rifle. You shouldn't have much trouble getting the records on the gun. Most top English makers are glad to research them because they seem curious about where they end up.

I traded my Rigby back to Cape Outfitters for a 450-400 Jeffery double. I wanted to know a little about it because it was a very high grade rifle. I sent the serial number and a photograph to Holland & Holland and they supplied me with a copy of the original build sheet on the rifle.

I also talked to them about the rifle and you could not have talked to anyone who was more friendly. Builders of these rifles are in a class by themselves.