I got my Ruger I mentioned in another post the other day. Wood was pretty nice, not highly figured but nice coloration with really dark mineral streaking, which is what I was wanting.

I was really impressed overall by the quality, and the trigger was better than I had expected. Only guaged 3 1/2 pounds with pretty good feel. Nothing like a good aftermarket, but pretty decent for a current rifle.

My question is about magazine capacity. I have seen at least 100 posts in varying groups comparing the CZ and Ruger, and one of the big things always mentioned is that "the Ruger only holds 2 down and 1 up while the CZ holds 3 down and 1 up. Very important in a DGR."

Well, my Ruger holds 3 in the magazine, with another 1/4" or more of slack. That equates to 3 down and up, unless I am mistaken. I checked the Ruger site, and their specs say "Cartridge capacity 3". The CZ site says specifically that the Safari Magnum has a Magazine capacity of 3. This would appear to be the same as the Ruger.

Does the CZ actually hold one more than the Ruger or not? This is one of the most common "facts" reported here, but unless they will hold 4 in the magazine instead of the advertised 3, I don't think it is true. If someone has one of each, I would like their comments. Thanks.

what caliber is your ruger?

I've owned 2x 602s (Same as CZ 550).

My 416 Rigby held 3 down.

My 375 holds 5 down.

Art,
I assume you are talking about the .416 Rigby.
My Ruger holds three down. Always has and always will, anybody who said 2 down was BS-ing.

The CZ's I have had are 3 or 4 down depending on the stock, box and follower, or some variation that I don't have pinned down as yet.

Note that the old Lux/Hogback had the bottom metal flush with the wood. The American has the bottom metal sunken into the wood at the front action screw , but the stocks may be thicker/deeper in this area. There are ribbed boxes and flat sided boxes, etc.

Whatever the variation, the CZ's that only hold 3 down only need about 0.1" extra depth (or a little wider box) to hold 4 down.

The CZ in .404 Jeffery holds 5 down with a little slack. It is one of the ribbed boxes.

CZ's in .375 H&H that I have on hand hold 5 or 6 down, again, some variation.

I cannot speak for the Ruger in .375 H&H, only a .416 Rigby Ruger RSM on hand.

The CZ box is cosine-perfect-Mauser-dimensioned for the .404 Jeffery width, but 3.8" long, .2" more length than needed, but that is no problem.

The Ruger box is a bit wider and better for the .416 Rigby, than the CZ, though the Ruger box is not as deep as the CZ.

The CZ box is 1.030" wide at the back end, in the .404 Jeffery, and I got 1.057" for the .416 Rigby rifle's box. CZ must have some variation in their boxes. Does this mean they are trying to fit the boxes to the cartridges? Weak effort to avoid one size fits all?

My .416 Rigby Ruger box is 1.060" wide at the back end.

The Ruger box is better for the .416 Rigby.

Using the Mauser Cosine calculation would predict a necessary rear box width for the .416 Rigby: 1.101", for .590" case head diameter.

And for the .404 Jeffery: 1.017", for .545" case head diameter.

And for the .375 H&H: 0.993", for .532" case head diameter.

A little slop seems to work well, and the .404 Jeffery at 1.030" mag box back end width seems perfect.

The Rigby's are a squeeze in any of the factory rifles, it seems.



BTW, my fellow Kentuckian, I am off the Alaska to Connecticut circuit and staying in Kentucky for a while as an Army Contractor, supporting the troops. Happy 4th of July.

Thanks for the info. I should have mentioned that it was a Rigby. Just forgot since thinking of previous posts.

Your info jibes with the specs. As near as I can tell, the Ruger and CZ have the same capacity. This appears to be just another one of those myths that get started on bulletin boards and then repeated over and over by posters with no actual experience. Someone always thows this out as a big advantage of CZ over Ruger when that discussion breaks out.

Art,
I added some more measurements of the CZ boxes to tha above. Definite variations in the CZ's.

I also measured a SigArms Mauser 98 Magnum in .450 Dakota. It is only 1.000" wide at the back of the box.

That one has a pocket floor plate that bulges like a pregnant guppy, and it holds four down. This is for a .416 Rigby case head cartridge, but the box width is all wrong, and it is supposed to be a "perfect Mauser" recreation.

Mister Prechtl makes the boxes for .375 H&H case head size, and SigArms uses them for .416 Rigby case head size.

Oh well, it works, but it ain't perfect after all. It is a one piece bottom metal machined out of steel. At least that part is "true Mauser."

Now I wonder if Mr. Johannsen squeezes .416 Rigby cartridges into the same box size (since he uses the Prechtl actions), or does he mill out the thick side walls of the box to better fit the Rigby?

My CZ comfortably held 4 down so I might be one to have perpetuated the 'myth'. Subjectively my Ruger seems to be better set up for rigby dimensions and is what i've persisted with - both rifles hve been 'tuned' by a gunsmith, but I'm taking the Ruger to Chewore. Charlie.

mine holds 4 down also

Gringo,
For the .416 Rigby, I've had one CZ that held only 3 down, and one that held 4 down comfortably.

A .458 Win Mag CZ with non-ribbed box was converted to .375 Lapua and easily holds 4 down of that Rigby sized case head.

The 4-down .416 Rigby stayed as is.
The 3-down .416 Rigby CZ was converted to a 45 Lapua.

It is not hard to convert a 3-down to a 4-down. All that is needed is an extra 0.1" of box depth.

With some of the CZ's, I think that all that is needed is to switch the ribbed box to the smooth sided box. Sometimes that and an extra hair's breadth acquired in pillar bedding will more than do it.

As to the ribbed box in the .404 CZ, that may be the trick that makes the 1.030" width so perfect for the 1.017" cosine-Mauser requirement.

Also, when the .404 Jeffery cartridges slide 0.2" forward in recoil, that narrows the effective back end of the box, when the bullet noses batter up against the front wall of the box.

There are a lot of Pushfeeds out there that don't follow the Mauser-cosine rule.

Sine of 60 degrees is 0.8660.
Cosine of 30 degrees is 0.8660.

Case head diameter = X

Required box width for the perfect Mauser stack = Y

Y = (0.866)X + X = (1.866)X

1.866 times the case head diameter is what the back end of the box should be.

That is what lawndart and others have said anyway, and drawing a sketch of the box, or banding three cartridges with a rubber band, then measuring and applying a little "triggernometry" will show it to be accurate.

And of course we can do this with the shoulder diameter of the cartridges and throw in the COL for length of box and get an accurate 3D picture.

This Mauser Cosine Rule might also be called the MAUSER SINE QUA NON

Well it's been fun, but I gotta go do something useful.

My cz also holds four down, then you feed one in from the mag and it's 3 down

I have not had the extractor bevvelled so that it snaps over a rim. I can force it be placing pressure on the middle of the extracter, if I do this I have 4 in the mag and one in the chamber.

PC,
I have always felt it was a mistake to bevel the extractors on a Mauser or any control feed rifle, as it weakens extraction considerably..I would rather pinch it off to feed that first round..but to each his own..I never could see where dropping a round in the chamber by hand was productive in any way..Actually its easier to stuff one in the maganzine and close the bolt if your in a hurry...Just my opine.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
PC,
I have always felt it was a mistake to bevel the extractors on a Mauser or any control feed rifle, as it weakens extraction considerably..I would rather pinch it off to feed that first round..but to each his own..I never could see where dropping a round in the chamber by hand was productive in any way..Actually its easier to stuff one in the maganzine and close the bolt if your in a hurry...Just my opine.

Ray your right and I only ever forced it to do it once, and I could tell my rifle "didn't like It" so I have not doen it since. I am happy with 3 in the mag and one in the chamber.

PC and Ray,
I'm with you guys on that too.
If the extractor is good spring steel, then the "pinch" maneuver to load the extra cartridge directly into the chamber is O.K., and the approved Mauser thing.

I prefer to leave extractors unmodified too. NO pushfeed please.

Maybe that little bevel to snap over would weaken the extraction.

The CZ has the true self-locking extractor of a Mauser. They got that right, and that is another MAUSER SINE QUA NON

Rip,

yes I would not want to risk weakening something by "forcing"I think there is a lot to like about the cz action and it is an excellent starting point for a fine rifle IMHO.

Also, if you read Taylor, he states that another reason for not slipping one in the chamber is the fact that in a situation where a fast reload is needed and you don't have time to fiddle with getting a round in the chamber, you will be used to having either 3 or 4 rounds in your rifle and may think you have one more than you do. Under presure you never want to have the choice of doing something different as it most certainly can come back to bite you in the ass.

Good point, Maineguide1. Everything should be a reflex-like habit requiring no "thinking" or puzzling over. Taylor is full of it, good advice, that is.