I'd appreciate any information on locating someone who has or can make some plinking bullets for a 470 Nitro. Bullet diameter is .474 and I tried some .475 jacketed pistol bullets. Didn't really like having to close the breech so forcefully - even the .001 difference was noticeable. I'm looking for something in the 300-400 grain range, probably with a gas check. My knowledge of bullet casting is truly remarkable just because it is so non-existent. So I'm really open to suggestion.

RCBS makes a 400 grain mold in the .475 size - can that be sized down perhaps? What do I need besides my presses? I have an old rockchucker and a new, large lyman that was needed to handle the length of the 470 loaded rounds. Could someone buy some of these oversize bullets and swage them down for me? Ideas?

(I posted the same question at the Cast Bullets forum)

Thanks!

Check out the link below for their pistol .475 caliber hardcast gc projectiles. It usually takes less than 2 weeks to get their stuff. Good luck.

http://www.castperformance.com/

Typically a cast bullet will shoot better if it is .001 to .002 larger in diameter than your jacketed bullets. Wayne Doudna makes a 540 grain cast bullet you can use for $50 for 500, plus shipping. email: wdoudna@hotmail.com He can size it to whatever you want.

The gas check is not necessary because you will not be pushing it fast enough to get any leading.

For powder, I suggest 35-50 grains of XMR5744 for mild pleasant loads.

HT,
You say it was hard to close the action on the .475 pistol bullets. That is a different problem as well. You might measure the outer diameter of a loaded .470 factory round at the neck area, and measure one of the loaded ropunds with the .475 pistol bullets. Could it be the entire neck was too large for the rifle's chamber, or was it because the diameter of the bullet AHEAD of the case's neck was too large for the start of the rifling. The ogive shape is QUITE different on a pistol bullet than it is on a rifle bullet.... Now you will also have the same problem with the cast bullet IF the ogive of the cast bullet touches the lead of the rifling too soon as well. Black powder cartridge shooters have used a BORE-RIDER bullet with much luck. That bullet is bore diameter on the front 1/2 and groove diameter(plus .001 or .002)on the bottom half. That way you get the best accuracy, and the bullet is seating further out of the case, and actually RIDES down the bore without being engraved by the rifling. Could be the chamber is tight, and the brass is thick...which means you might have to neck turn the brass to get a larger bullet down the barrel with the best fit, to achieve the best accuracy.
Just my nickel,
SP

I'll go with 500grains here. I ordered and received, in like 8 days, 500 530gr GC .511 bullets, lubed with LBT, for $72 delivered.

Give wayne a call or email, tell him what you want, and he'll get you there. If you are feeling a different closing the gun, it almost has to be neck thickness, as you are NO WHERE close to touching the rifling.

i would suggest that you get them at 475 or 476, wayne can make them, have them cast HARD, and put gaschecks on them, and get them in the weight of your bullets. play with the velocity till the casts hit at poi.

jeffe

Cabelas has the LBT Cast Performance bullets. These are hard cast heat treated bullets available with gas checks. Even though your velocity is low enough, the gas checks still will prevent leading from the bullet base melting in the bore.

Thanks for the advice. I'll contact the sources mentioned. Didn't know that cast bullets can be 1 or 2 thousandths larger than jacketed. Makes sense though that they will engage the rifling differently and can be slightly oversize to do that.

By the way, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the bullets engaging the bores that caused the gun to be difficult to close. It was the slightly larger diameters of the bullets that actually bulged the necks somewhat. In fact, I actually split a couple of necks trying to load these darn things. I was trying to get ready for Africa in the 3 weeks after I finally received the double rifle. Just didn't have time for figuring out those kind of problems, and gave up on the plinking loads after one box.

I used a micrometer to verify the neck expansion when I noticed the difficulty in closing the action. Probably wouldn't be quite the same problem with a cast bullet, so the .475 diameter in a cast bullet may well do the trick.

Thanks for the help. This is a really good forum, with very knowledgeable folks.

I would get the cast bullets the same diameter as your jacked bullets, but deffinately get them gaschecked. The gascheck will guarantee proper engraveing by the rifleing. In the days when shooters were changeing from pure lead to jacketed bullets they used a so-called "solid" in double rifle. This was not a solid as we know it today, but a hard cast lead bullet with a half jacket,called a "Metal base" similar to a gascheck, but it extended up the bareing surface of the lead bullet about tthree times as much as a modern gascheck. A gascheck will work though. They work like a charm in my old black powder doubles. If you have the first edition of Graeme Wright's book, "SHOOTING THE BRITISH DOUBLE RIFLE", there is a picture of the check I'm speaking of on page 49 of that book!

Here is a picture of the 460 gr cast out of a 480 revolver, and traveling through 38" newsprint on left, and 2-3" bone, 10+" newsprint on the left.



The one thing to consider with a double is getting loads that will shoot together, which might not happen with lighter bullets.

H T You can also try Hawk bullets. A friend of mine got good results with their 350 gr. .035jkt.
The load was 75gr. of 3031, with a filler. It hit to the same point of impact as the factory Federals at 50 yards.

HT,

I too had problems with having to slam the action shut using cast bullets in my Encore 470NE. The bullets used were Paul H's 460 gr Gaschecks pictured above. I thought maybe the bullets were engaging the rifling, but the bullets were loaded short so that probably wasn't it. All the brass was sized the same. The Barnes XLC's chambered just fine, but I had to rack the action hard to get the cast's chamber and close.

NE 450's suggestion sounds pretty good, and I've ordered a box of the Hawk bullets to try out. Not sure if it's the 1/1000th that's causing the problem the hardness of the bullet, or what. But I intend to see if those Hawks work as well in my rifle as they did in his friends.

Lessons learned. ShondorP was correct - it was the shape of the bullet that was the major culprit. I bought some Hawk bullets, loaded one, and had a problem. Called Andy at Hawk bullets, and followed his suggestion of looking harder at the bullet contour as the anomaly. Pushed the bullet to where it engaged the rifling, measued the depth from the start of the chamber, which was easy to do since it's a break open action. Added the bullet height, and used that length as the OAL, less about 30 thousandths. Worked very well! Still having to fool with the crimping, but at least these underweight, short bullets will chamber.

By the way, thanks also to NE 450 #2 - they shoot quite well at 50 yards with the load your friend used in his Chapuis.

Many thanks to all!!

H T Glad the Hawk bullets and the load has worked out. I do not crimp my Hawk bullet loads, as they do not have a "groove". However on the bullets that have a "groove" I seat all the bullets first, then raise the seating stem and remove the spacer under the die lock ring, lower the die and then crimp. This way I get a perfect crimp every time. Also I trim my cases every time I load them, I use the file trim RCBS die.

Andy will move the cannelure to whereever you want it to be, minimum order 4 or 5 boxes. ask him to send you a couple loose in the shape,weight, mark them where you want them, and send em back...

or, order em blank, and and get a cannelure cutting tool from ch4d, and make them where you want. you'ld have to special order for .475, but that's only like 5 bucks more.

jeffe